A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Comedian Ian Abramson
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A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Comedian Ian Abramson
Heists, Dinosaurs, Comedy, The Inland Empire, Chicago, Marriage, and Star Wars!
A [BLANK] Conversation With… is an interview series where guests engage in a three-day conversation via their preferred mode of text-based communication, with no commitments to the length or frequency of their responses.
Where to begin? I met comedian, Ian Abramson, in high school honors English (which sounds like a Knighthood but is really just a class designed to make certain students feel superior). It was before either of us comfortably wore the title of ‘comedian…’ You know — back when I wore polyetser X-Men shirts from the mall and hadn’t properly socialized with peers since elementary school. We quickly forged a friendship fueled by nerdiness and a sense that we were outliers of what popular culture deemed teens our age and race should be.
For a while, he was just that strange kid who did theatre after school. Then, one day — my mother nudged me into joining the theatre program because she knew I had an interest in film, etc. Suddenly we were both strange kids who did theatre after school. Him as an actor. And me, as a lighting tech.
Years later, we both moved to Chicago in the vague pursuit of a life in comedy. And somehow, that pursuit has mostly worked out!
On top of his current movie mash-up sketch show at Alamo Drafthouse L.A., Ian has performed standup on Conan —
…Created popular experimental comedy shows, like 7 Minutes In Purgatory —
…Somehow briefly become a spokesperson for Miracle-Gro —
And every now and then, collaborates with me on ideas. Like this short film we wrote and starred in called Inland Empire —
I wanted to catch up with Ian to get some clarity on our early years as well as a sense of what the next phase of our lives has in store. Here is our three-day conversation.
Enjoy… Oh! And if you don’t like curse words or explicit content or whatever phrase you prefer that defines that kind of thing, this is your warning:
There are swear words in this chat!
TABLE OF CONVERSATION:
Dinosaurs, High School, & ‘The Weirdness’
College, The Megabus, & Paul Reubens
Marriage, Star Wars, & Oppenheimer
Note: Ian lives in Chicago and Tim lives in New York. Each text is timestamped in Eastern Standard Time. However, certain reactions like “iPhone haha”s and ❤️s exist out of time. We have no way of retrospectively knowing exactly when those buttons were pressed. There have been minor adjustments of the text for clarity.
DAY 1 (Monday 08-07-2023)
Tim Barnes: (11:08AM) Mr. Abramson! Welcome to the interview Ian Abramson: (11:16AM) Hello very happy to be here (11:16AM) So, what are you up to? Tim: (11:22AM) Hahaha, not much. I just emailed “five jokes” to subscribers, which is my attempt at lowering my twitter use. But I noticed two huge errors so my day is ruined. (11:22AM) How about you? Ian: (11:22AM) What is Twitter? (11:22AM) I’m good! Tim: (11:22AM) Sorry, I meant ex machina Ian: (11:23AM) The movie Bicentennial Man could have been called Ex Machina Tim: (11:23AM) I really do love that movie. Saw it as a kid in theaters and was absolutely riveted (11:23AM) Though someone explained elements of the plot recently and I was like “oh no…” Ian: (11:24AM) Hahaha we should rewatch it. I know Flubber was one of those for you too. (11:24AM) I remember seeing the animated dinosaur movie “we’re back” and dancing in the aisles Tim: (11:24AM) Yeah I never put those together but “Robin Williams + sci-fi” really defined my youth (11:25AM) Wow, that’s a movie with a title that means nothing but once you see the poster means so much (11:25AM) What the hell was that? Ian: (11:25AM) My life would have been better if they’d put Mork and Mindy on Nick at Nite [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (11:26AM) --
(11:26AM) The plot of that one is weird too. A circus scientist goes back in time or something? Tim: (11:26AM) I don’t even associate it with a company. That’s what’s blowing me away (11:27AM) It’s like the movie time traveled to us Ian: (11:27AM) This is the prequel --
[Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (11:27AM) You’re lying right? Ian: (11:28AM) No, they made a bunch of them. Spawned a straight to VHS franchise Tim: (11:28AM) --
Ian:
(11:28AM) This is from “We’re (Really) Back” --
Tim: (11:28AM) Ian, let’s focus Ian: (11:29AM) Ok, so now WE are the ones that are back (11:31AM) --
(11:31AM) Ok, let’s get back to the interview. How did you get your start in newsletters? Tim: (11:34AM) I love trying to predict the future and realized that if all of the big social media companies crumble — which it currently feels like they are — I need to at least attempt doing something worth the people who enjoy my work wanting to stay updated. I started this in earnest at the beginning of the year as a light experiment. But as literally every other creative venture has entered limbo it’s become more important to me. (11:34AM) Happy?! (11:34AM) Now to you— (11:34AM) I knew I wanted to interview you in this series on Saturday when I was sitting in a Dunkin Donuts in an area that’s primarily hard working people lingering outside waiting for employment opportunities. I sat there. Drinking my coffee. Enjoying the ambience of real working people. And felt totally at peace and at home. I can’t tell you the last time I was in a coffee shop that gave me that feeling. And I think that’s a feeling we both enjoy and somehow discovered together. Is this hitting home to you at all? Ian: (11:36AM) Oh yes. Absolutely. I am deeply uncomfortable if a coffee shop seems worried about my comfort Tim: (11:37AM) I remembered how we genuinely enjoyed writing in a McDonald’s, for instance. Not a McCafé… a McDonald’s Ian: (11:37AM) I love being in a situation with strangers all just sort putting up with something. Elevators. The DMV. A collective acknowledgment that we are all dealing with a bunch of BS and have better things to do (11:37AM) I have written inside of a McDonald’s in the last week! (11:38AM) One time you and I were writing in a McDonald’s and we were there for like five hours. Just brainstorming, and writing comedy. And the entire time they played the same U2 song. Not even an album. Just the same song. Tim: (11:41AM) Was that in Chicago? Ian: (11:43AM) No, it was in McDonald’s. (11:43AM) I read somewhere that Mitch Hedburg liked to write in Target cafeterias (11:47AM) Tim, you’re someone that the world loves to approach. For years I’ve seen folks just walk up to you and start talking. You have this neutral setting that I think disarms people. How do YOU feel about people just talking to you out of nowhere? Tim: (11:54AM) It is an odd thing that I’ve gotten used to. I enjoy it, partly because it feels like the universe wants me to be this sounding board for others. (Is that the right use of “sounding board?”) I very rarely have much to say in response. And I always feel like I’m compiling stuff that I’ll somehow use later. I think people like the idea of “oh, this guys taking notes” [Ian gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (11:55AM) It’s also quite possible that I am literally a magical negro (11:56AM) But, no. People of all races come up to me and tell me all kinds of stuff Ian: (11:56AM) I remember we were at a bus station once and a guy started talking to you. I tuned out for a minute and when I tuned back in he said “and the cops let me go. Cause I said I wasn’t gonna go under a hundred miles per hour to see my daughter” (11:57AM) In the same way you’re saying bicentennial man is a movie that had a weirdly large impact and doesn’t hold up well… we had HBO free for a week when I was ten and they played the Legend of Bagger Vance so much I can still remember it scene by scene Tim: (12:00PM) I bet there’s a very direct correlation between that movie coming out in 2000 and Barack Obama being elected 8 years later (12:01PM) Did we meet in 2004? Ian: (12:01) Are saying that Obama could be framed as a magical negro, or that he benefitted from the magic of Will Smiths character? (12:01PM) We graduated 2007, so I think we met at the end of august 2003? (12:02PM) We met after attack of the clones but before return of the king Tim: (12:02PM) And after 9/11 Ian: (12:02PM) Let me google that, I don’t know that movie [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (12:02PM) Oh, definitely a mix of both for Obama. I think Obama knows how to use the tropes of the magical negro to his benefit. In fact, I think all Black people do. Ian: (12:03PM) Fascinating. Tim: (12:04PM) --
Ian: (12:04PM) How many marvel movies do you think Obama has seen? --
(12:04PM) It’s on Tubi! I’ll watch it when I get home [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (12:06PM) My phone might die, so I’ll go silent for a bit but I’ll be back Tim: (12:06PM) Hahaha, okay (12:06PM) The answer to the Obama question is: 5 Ian: (12:08PM) Thor. Thor 2. Ang Lee’s Hulk. Spider-Man Homecoming. And Blade. Tim: (12:19PM) Hahaha (12:20PM) What’s your favorite line from Bagger Vance? Ian: (12:20PM) It’s this sequence when he talks about dissociating from life so you can focus on hitting the ball. (12:21PM) At ten, it was basically French new wave to me (12:22PM) Also this line about one of the golfers who would suck for nine shots and then get a hole in one. That movie had smooth dialogue. Or at least that’s how I remember it (12:23PM) Also a kid is ashamed that his dad is sweeping the street, and the good guy golfer is like “no no… that’s good.” Because it’s a Great Depression movie Tim: (12:30PM) The ashamed kid thing always hits home for me because I used to have feelings like that about my dad. I’m so ashamed of it now. It never really was that I was embarrassed of the profession of being a plasterer, but more that I had absolutely no intention of learning how to do it or being even mildly good at it. Which really just means I thought I was above it. One of the houses near me has some construction going on and for the past week I’ve seen this kid there working with his dad. I feel like I can read his mind whenever I walk by them. But everything from the cab driver reveal in ‘Radio Days’ to the entire plot of ‘Bicycle Thieves’ gets me (12:32PM) Anyway, I’m getting groceries now (1:07PM) One of my goals in this conversation is to further define what I think we crystallized in the writing of our short film, but never said out loud. The feeling that we call “the weirdness” Ian: (4:01PM) I’m with you, regarding dad stuff. I had versions of that with my stepdad for sure. I think it’s part of growing up, realizing what other people actually sacrificed on your behalf and such. (4:03PM) The weirdness. It’s something that’s always brought us together. Those little things that are technically normal but… bizarre. Like a squirrel eating an almond. Or a Lyft driver listening to an audio book about trees. Basically anything that happens at a bus stop. (4:05PM) Reminders that life is bizarre. But in a sweet way. You and I have always found stuff like “taxes” to feel like science fiction, and then you’ll end up at the post office with a guy trying to sell you hot wheels (true story) and you’re like “no wait, everything IS bizarre” Tim: (5:09PM) Yes! One of the first things that I remember connecting us in high school was this time that we had to do some mandatory audio test in the library (5:09PM) Do you remember this? (5:09PM) What the hell was that? (5:10PM) And we invented this whole conspiracy that spiraled of into potential action sequences, etc (5:10PM) That felt like the beginning of the weirdness Ian: (5:26PM) Yeah. When you get half of a story, you know? We had to wait for hours to get our ears tested at 16 and we were like “what are they looking for… really?” Tim: (5:26PM) It’s not a thing TV shows about high school warn you about (5:27PM) How do you feel about our high school experience. For context, I think the school barely existed before we got there Ian: (5:29PM) Right, when we were freshmen it was the second year of the school. There were juniors that had been freshmen at different high schools, but no seniors. It made the idea of school spirit weird because teachers and administrators would say “go ravens!” But nobody had done anything yet. There were zero alumni. It made our theater department rule though, because everything was getting built from the ground up. (5:30PM) “Ok, so this is the first time we’ve ever made… stairs.” (5:34PM) Also it was new, and had these weird modern fences and concrete everything. Folks from other high schools would be like “It looks like a prison! Haha your high school SUCKS!” And we were like… wait, you’re actually PROUD of your high school? What part? The standardized testing scores? The sports teams? The…. Camaraderie? It made it all seem extra silly Tim: (5:43PM) Yeah, the newness of the school really added the general “frontier vibe” of Moreno Valley (5:43PM) You grew up there, like, totally right? Ian: (6:10PM) Yeah. So I was around when the air force base shut down. Even as a kid you could feel it. Military Families all moving away. Hospitals just straight up abandoned Tim: (7:38PM) Was it sort of like Courage the Cowardly Dog? Ian: (7:40PM) The weird part about that town is that the outskirts do feel exactly like that. Just full ranches, people own horses. Tim: (7:42PM) I was a part of the wave of people moving there from the city. It’s something I’ve only been able to put into context as an adult. But it was a wonderfully strange group of people (7:42PM) And you’re right, there is something about the school being so new that allowed us to see a falseness to a lot of things Ian: (7:43PM) Right? They’d try to get us amped up. “We raised more money than in the schools history.” History? This schools history couldn’t fill a pamphlet Tim: (7:53PM) Hahaha (7:53PM) Now that we’re both in out mid-30s, how do you feel about the education system as a whole? (7:56PM) But also as a hole? Ian: (9:53PM) Hahahaha (9:53PM) Dude I could not have more complicated thoughts. So let me give context that YOU know, but I’ll state for the interview (9:54PM) I come from a long line of public school teachers. Both parents, grandparents on both sides, my sister, etc. So, I’ve always valued it, and particularly valued public school as a concept. (9:59PM) I remember highschool teachers as ranging from unbelievable Mr. Feeny types, and sadistic Ms. Trunchbull types. And I’m grateful I got both, because it made me grapple with the sorta thing you don’t CHOOSE to face, and aren’t “good” for you, but also kind of build character for you. (10:05PM) There wasn’t much space for trade school type stuff which is a shame. There wasn’t much space for diving deep into stuff we were into. You were reading Dante’s Inferno and going to continuation classes because we were just a little too aware none of it mattered. (10:08PM) But there were for sure teachers and stuff really dedicated to carving out important space for students that wouldn’t have existed otherwise. Our theater teacher put a LOT of her own time into building a space for the “non-sports-kinda-creative-just-want—community” type stuff. And then we had several teachers that would talk to us for hours after school just cause. (10:08PM) So I have complicated feelings about that stuff (10:10PM) When the writers strike ends we should pitch the two of us attending highschool over again. Reality. So we can actually do it. I wanna figure out why Algebra was the only math that needed a sequel AND a prequel
DAY 2 (Tuesday 08-08-2023)
Tim: (8:30AM) Ian! Day two! What I remember most about high school theater was the feeling of having ownership of the school. We were there for some pretty long nights. I felt like I was downloading so much information at the time. It forced me to meet and become friends with all kinds of people that I don’t think I would have otherwise. What I’m saying is, high school theater IS America. (8:31AM) We went to separate colleges. For me it was a few years of city college, but for you it was a “REAL” college. How do you feel about that experience overall? Ian: (12:46PM) College was weird. I wanted to start making things, doing stuff, figuring out what I was gonna do with my life and it felt like I had to pause for four more years. (12:49PM) I was grateful for the experience, and I learned a lot, but I think we both slowly realized it wasn’t what we were promised lol (12:49PM) College gave me a lot of pent up energy that made me want to move somewhere I could really try to… write, perform, or something like that. (12:49PM) How did you feel about college? Tim: (12:59PM) I felt incredibly confused. I never understood what the degrees were, and had no feelings attached to them. They’d probably make more sense if i wanted to be a lawyer or doctor or something. I can’t even tell you now if I have a degree in anything. I very well could. But not graduating made every small victory that much more special Ian: (1:04PM) I hear that. Degrees can have value for some stuff, but for a lot of things I think there are other ways to get the experience and knowledge. Much more valuable to figure out how to figure stuff out in a general way, if that makes sense Tim: (1:35PM) Yeah! Definitely. I remember that before we moved to Chicago together I had already given up on college. I moved back home and was working at a movie theater across from UC Riverside. But then you eventually hatched this plan for the move. What’s funny is, I don’t think either of us in high school ever expressly said that we wanted to be comedians, it was a slow evolution. (1:36PM) Where was your headspace at before we moved to Chicago? Ian: (1:37PM) Yeah, comedian took a long time to arrive at. Before we moved to Chicago my headspace was “in highschool they said to go to college, so I did. In college, they didn’t really say much of anything so I felt lost. So now I want to go somewhere and figure out how to be a writer and performer no matter what.” (1:39PM) I was just so pent up, and it felt stuck. Like I had stuff I wanted to do and couldn’t figure out how to do it. Then I thought about who I knew that really had that gumption. Really had that drive to do it no matter what. And I mean, YOU had shown ME Robert Rodriguez and I had shown YOU Sam Raimi, and we’d both always had a real interest in figuring out how to make something as good as we could, even when we had no idea what we were doing. (1:42PM) So I remember I came out of a movie that made me think of you, and we talked about it for an hour, and I was like, kinda hinting I’d love for you to come, and you were hinting you were down for a change, and then we just committed to it. We did stand up in front of friends and at music open mics, and anywhere they’d let us, because we just needed to get comfortable. And we did our best to save money, but it’s not like we moved with a big nest egg. There was a chance we’d bottom out in like two months. (1:43PM) Our brains have always worked differently than each other and it’s helped us a lot. We love to research stuff but in different ways, with slightly different tastes. So we always had new stuff to tell each other, and show each other. We just both got obsessed with doing different parts of “making it happen.” (1:44PM) I think up to that point we had big “smart, but doesn’t apply themselves” energy. Which I know I resented because I felt like I was doing my best. I just can’t help but tackle things in a chaotic ADHD kinda fashion (1:46PM) But you and I knew that we were both actually capable of learning whatever we had to, and didn’t care that it wasn’t as refined at first because we knew we were coming from the school of “figure it out, be down to help and learn and just know it’s gonna be painful to suck at stuff” (1:57PM) That’s the thing that I think really clicked for us. We were finding that no matter what we tried to do it was gonna be clunky. Others jobs we were… partially functional. So we may as well try to do the thing we really wanted to. But also… even in high school, I mean, making people laugh was a big part of what we liked to do. We didn’t call it comedy or anything, just friends riffing with each other. But we’d pay attention to what worked for some reason. Try to figure out how to REALLY surprise each other. Partly because even then our approach was so different it gave it a fun and friendly competitive vibe. I don’t really know where that came from? It wasn’t more complicated than teens messing around. “Who could make fun of the green lantern the best” was more what we’d call it. “Who can find a new way to make fun of The Phantom Menace” (1:58PM) That was what we loved to do. So then it slowly lead us to figuring out how to do other versions of that. It was that, and movies. For some reason we would seek out all kinds of different movies and pass them around. No one was showing us “Cinema” but we’d seek out parts of it that sounded cool, just cause we liked movies a lot. (2:01PM) I wish I understood it better. Because I take it for granted. It has a fairy tale quality to it, “two friends manage to make actual lives for themselves against all odds!” But you and I know that’s not how it felt lol It felt like holding in for dear life, apologizing wherever necessary, and trying to remember that the goal was “get good at the THING. The writing, the performing.” Not get too distracted by other stuff. Comedy can feel like a popularity contest and parts of it kinda are, but we had an attitude of “well, if we could figure out the lunch table crowd in high school, we’ll figure out that stuff. Just focus on getting better” Tim: (2:08PM) The older I get, the stranger I think it was that we spent so much time chatting online after school. Even though it’s a totally normal thing these days. I think that’s part of what our parents couldn’t really comprehend. Our entire circle of friends were basically having telepathic conferences for hours on end. And we all got to know each other more than we otherwise would [Ian gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (2:11PM) I feel like we hit the ground running in the strangest way in Chicago. We immediately had a web series in the works connected to an animated web series from Tom Snyder (not the late night host) and Jonathan Katz. It’s never really easy to explain it, but it somehow is directly connected to how I met my now fiancée (2:11PM) How do you think back on that old web series? Are there any highlights for you? Ian: (2:24PM) God, I’m forever grateful for them. I think they gave us $20 an episode. Which of course is like, nothing. But it was a vote of confidence that made us give it our all, ya know? And we learned a ton. We were writing a shooting an episode a week. You did all the editing on my laptop in my apartment lol My main take away from the web series was that you really could do whatever you wanted if you worked backwards from “how do I make this happen?” We were using a camcorder and construction lights. Hitting record and then going in front of the camera. But I learned about white balancing. We learned how to shoot with editing in mind. Stuff like that. (2:29PM) What was that like for you? You suddenly had this crazy puzzle to solve on iMovie in a way that was a headache but also a dream come true. Tim: (2:37PM) We didn’t touch those $20 for a long time too. At some point it came in super handy. I learned a lot from editing those episodes and I love the limitations of iMovie. Having to watch ourselves through various edits helped us find what it is about us that was funny. The right reaction at the right moment… I figured out how to be funny and low key. Synder also gave us notes on each one before the final edit! He taught us brevity, etc. I have no idea how long it was since I watched a few episodes, but our slapstick fight stands the test of time (2:38PM) You’re back in Chicago now after being in L.A. for some time. I don’t want to focus too much on that because there’s a lot of stuff you did before moving back. But how surreal is it?
Slapstick fight from Talent Scouts Honor web series (2012-ish)
Ian: (2:39PM) It’s great being back in Chicago. I am literally walking past a diner we wrote in once or twice. Producing live shows and working out new material rules here. Tiim: (2:46PM) What’s the real origin of you sharpie mustache? Are you still doing it? And are your lips okay? Ian: (2:47PM) My mustache is real. Next question. Tim: (2:50PM) I have a vivid memory of walking through Myopic Books (are they still around?) and you pulling me aside to pitch me this idea of a show where comedians tell jokes in solitude but the audience is watching live. It sounded absolutely insane, and kind of like one of those things you toss out there and move on from. But then you made it a real/popular thing! I’m having a hard time remembering how long we’d been in Chicago at that point, but the fact that we went from two nobodies to the point where one of us was was doing such a hug experimental show says a lot. What do you remember about the time leading up to 7 Minutes In Purgatory? How was it riding the wave of that show? And how do you feel about it now? Ian: (2:56PM) It is surreal. I think we’d been in Chicago around two and a half years when I started that. (2:58PM) I mean, to me, it was just one more “oh man let’s see what this is like” and then I was blessed with a great response. Overwhelming. I remember you and I toured it together on the megabus. And on the way back, in the last hour of the ride, the woman next to you leaned over and whispered “can you help me take off my necklace?” And then got fully nude. And then defecated in the aisles. Which I mean, the weirdness. It’s there!(3:00PM) But basically, I went from doing it in a small DIY space to touring it on the megabus in Atlanta, to really going on tour for the first time, still on the megabus, and then three months later I was doing it at SXSW, performing alongside Killer Mike. I was shell shocked man. (3:02PM) There were about two years there when I was really lost and sort of isolated. Champagne problems, because amazing stuff was happening, but I was young! And still new to comedy! And I suddenly lived in a different city than my inner circle. Which was already really small! (3:04PM) And also my dad was slowly dying in the middle of all this lol I came back from SXSW and slept in a UCLA hospital room. Life was moving fast in all these different ways. I didn’t navigate it all great, and in some ways only really started processing it like two years ago. (3:05PM) So, when you ask “how do you feel about 7 minutes in purgatory today?” It feels like asking about a dream I had. I’m like “wait, how do you know about that?” (3:06PM) I’m sure I’ll bring it back at some point, but I wanna build some other stuff first. I’m proud of that show. I’m proud of what I got to do with it. Also, there’s no way any of it would have happened without Matt Byrne. He produced it with me. So shoutout there. Tim: (3:44PM) Two and a half years… I bet that felt like forever to us but is really quick in hindsight. I remember the Atlanta show. I think I was probably at my funniest then. I remember feeling really in my element at the time. And yes, the woman who defecated in the the aisle of the top level of the bus still haunts me. The funniest part is that you were seated so far away. Every now and then I’d turn back just to see your shocked reaction escalate. Ian: (3:45PM) The way it escalated for me was very different than it was for you lol [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (3:51PM) It’s funny, that split when you moved to L.A. I was still in Chicago and moved to New York maybe a year or so later. But your rise seemed meteoric from afar. You had reps, I think you had maybe done a few commercials at that point. You were really building a name and presence. I’ve been reflecting more on how that particular wave of comedy has passed. I think that’s why the two of us are rebuilding in different ways now. Comedy Central means something totally different now than it did just a few years ago, etc. I’ll probably have a clear question based on all of that later. But, I wonder — how much of your pursuit in the entertainment industry was connected to all those cliches we love about artists trying to prove their worth to their father? Ian: (3:56PM) Yeah, it’s part of why I’ve felt so lost after he died. When I try to examine that head on it feels like an abstract mess of feelings, inspirations, frustrations, and ambition. In a lot of ways doing what he wasn’t ever able to really try to do. I recorded a special in November, which was surreal. But it also was sort of capping the chapter of whatever that stage was for me. So I could build new stuff and move on. (3:58PM) My favorite part of the special though, is a line that doesn’t even seem like a joke, that was a joke only for you specifically. It’s in the middle of other stuff so it doesn’t even feel like a joke, but then it gets one laugh, which is distinctly yours. And I love trying to weave in personal little stuff like that, rather than doing it head on. Tim: (3:59PM) Well, I can’t wait to watch the special to figure out what the hell it is you’re talking about Ian: (4:00PM) I’ve watched that piece over and over again. It’s like five seconds. But also, in the comedy albums we’ve listened to a ton, we’ve talked about specific laughs in an audience. Tim: (4:01PM) Oh, yeah. That’s what makes albums special. They’re always best when the room feels intimate and you can tell that one of the laughers has a heart condition (4:01PM) I know that your father got to see you go on a game show with Tim Meadows. And I know this because he asked if Tim Meadows was me. Did he get to see you on Conan as well? Ian: (4:03PM) Yeah I still have that voicemail from him I think. “Was that… Tim on there with you?!” My dad was mostly blind by the point, but ya know, in a funny way. He did get to see my do Conan. After he died one of his close friends told me he had called him around that time and said “I hate to admit it, but I’m… jealous of my son.” Which I have mixed feelings about. It’s sort of like “wait, in some ways this is all for you!” And on the other hand it’s humbling, and weird, but also a compliment? I don’t know, white families show love in weird ways. Tim: (4:04PM) Hahaha (4:04PM) I think fathers expressing jealousy is also their way of expressing love (4:04PM) Don’t you want your children to have a life you’re jealous of? Ian: (4:04PM) Absolutely. (4:07PM) And you knew my dad, he was warm and supportive. So that doesn’t characterize him. Just one of those things. I wish I could talk with him about it. I’ve been finding it funny that when someone dies, you can talk to them still. They just can’t talk back. They’re not in the room hearing you. But I mean, I can say whatever I want to my dad. “Hi dad, merry Christmas” and he can’t even tell me I’m four months early Tim: (4:09PM) It really is amazing that he got to see you go so far. When my dad visited the set of All That, I remember him walking into the room a shared with another writer and saying “Wow, you have a whole desk…” That’s when I knew I was his son. He didn’t say it to be funny but its such a vague sentence that weighs so much [Ian gives this an iPhone "HaHa"](4:10PM) Also, wild that you did Conan only FIVE years after we moved to Chicago in the pursuit of careers. I remember rushing to a bar with our friend Charlie Rohrer to watch it [Ian gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (4:10PM) It was a dog bar (4:11PM) I don’t think that’s a scenario that will exist for much longer. It’s a big deal to have performed on late night when Conan still had a band (4:37PM) Does the upcoming special have a name? Ian: (6:16PM) I feel blessed. (6:16PM) The special will be called “The Heist” Tim: (6:17PM) Ah, yes. I remember now. And you have a long love of heist movies (6:18PM) Our careers are a sort of heist (6:19PM) Have you noticed anything different about the Chicago comedy scene now compared to when we started out there? Ian: (6:29PM) It’s one of those “the more things change the more the stay the same” there are lots of familiar faces. The scene is a bit smaller coming out of COVID but it’s also got a lot of energy, and there’s cool stuff growing. A crop of comics just moved to New York. The Lincoln Lodge and the Laugh Factory are both really thriving. The lodge has its own space with several show rooms, and is my favorite place to see folks from out of town right now. (6:30PM) Coles is going strong. That was surreal to be back there. Probably the most “whoa. Im in the past” kind of moment Tim: (6:31PM) Cole doesn’t know how many lives he has saved by simply having a few boxes of free pizza before that mic. Or, maybe he does and he’s keeping tabs (6:31PM) Do they still do the pizza thing? (6:32PM) I loved how there was always a few tables of a real audience there during a long chaotic open mic Ian: (6:36PM) They don’t do the pizza thing. Cole I guess has passed the bar on to others. He put his time in. But that’s what I mean, things are the same, but they are different too. There are plenty of shows still happening that were here when we started. And then there are new shows in familiar venues. I just did Schuba’s and had a great time (6:37PM) Ok wait. So the last few years you have had a string of amazing writing gigs. What do you think the future is for you? Or well, what direction do you think you’ll kinda push towards? Tim: (6:50PM) I’ve decided to stop trying to chase the hot new trends. Even when I go to shows, which is pretty rare for me now, I love seeing the new comics and don’t feel any competition with them. My new motto is “just let the kids have fun” and that’s served me well. There’s a big chance that late night in particular won’t look or feel remotely like the versions of it that inspired me. And I’ve also reached acceptance with that. I had a weird breakthrough a few interviews back with Eliza Cossio where I said “I am the genre.” And that’s what I’m focused on now. You can lose yourself a bit when you’re writing for any show because you have to let its voice take over. I was really lucky to have written for three in a row. But I was also exhausted and couldn’t find my spark for a while. With everything breaking, I’ve been able to see the falseness of the brands we try to construct around ourselves just to seem interesting enough to get booked or hired. I’m excited to write and create whatever I want and hopefully build a life raft that’s more genuine and big enough to bring others on board. I’m really enjoying writing in formats that don’t require production to fully exist. It gives me that sweet, sweet, heist feeling again (6:50PM) You really gonna read all of that? (6:54PM) I think a lot of that comes from a similar “waking up from it all” feeling that you’ve expressed having. I’ve done some cool stuff — NOW what?! Ian: (6:54PM) Ok I read it. I give it 9/10 [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (6:55PM) Totally. I think what’s next is really going “what is the garden we want to tend to?” Whatever THAT is Tim: (6:57PM) You know, no one ever talks about Adam and Eve pooping Ian: (6:57PM) I mean, something must have happened after she ate the apple Tim: (6:57PM) The shit of knowledge Ian: (6:58PM) “Ok, so THAT’s the result of sin?” (6:58PM) Adam is like “is that an animal? Do I name it?” Tim: (6:58PM) Hahaha (7:00PM) So, you’re married now. I’m technically getting courthouse married this Friday ahead of the bigger event next month. What’s it like having returned to our comedy birthplace with a wife instead of ME? Ian: (7:01PM) It’s funny because SHES more in the position we were, where as I know the city and such. So she’s enjoying figuring out the CTA, seeing, The lake, finding new places to eat and such. (7:02PM) I honestly thought I’d end up dead before getting married, having a dog, and no longer living like a nomadic hobo. (7:02PM) So for me it’s weird. I went to a Borat convention and won the award for saying “my wife” the most times Tim: (7:03PM) Is this true? Ian: (7:03PM) --
Tim: (7:04PM) Hahaha (7:04PM) Note to Tim — remember to post Ian’s episode of that old podcast here
Ian: (7:05PM) If someone told us at 16 we’d be married we’d go “huh, ok. Cool. How many Spider-Man movies are there?” Tim: (7:06PM) Feels like the answer is 10? I’m not looking it up. Just how it feels Ian: (7:07PM) All of my wishes from 16 came true. New Star Wars. Endless superheroes. Bitcoin. Of course, I didn’t realize what the reality of all three would mean. (7:08PM) I’ve seen Ben Affleck’s Daredevil more than ten times and I never liked it. I never finished the Netflix series of Daredevil and I thought it was pretty good. That sums it up I think (7:09PM) Wait, do you watch YouTube essays? Tim: (7:10PM) I watch far too many of them Ian: (7:10PM) There’s a great one about people that consistently try to mess with Wikipedia articles --
Tim: (7:11PM) Wow Ian: (7:11PM) What would you write YouTube essays about? Tim: (7:11PM) The Wikipedia thing could easily be made into a time travel story (7:12PM) I’d write YouTube videos about the intricate lives of charismatic background actors (7:13PM) It wouldn’t be fan fiction (7:13PM) I’d hunt down their life stories Ian: (7:13PM) Love that Tim: (7:27PM) I think I’d actually write about the different layers of influences on the things we love. A lot of people already cover that but it’s the stuff I wind up researching the most on my own (7:27PM) You and I are truly the product of the search engine Ian: (7:31PM) I hear you totally. I think you’d do well with that. It’s writing, then it’s audio, and then it’s editing. The tim trifecta Tim: (7:33PM) That’s a big part of this substack thing for me. An excuse that write something longer than a tweet (7:35PM) We should probably talk about Pee Wee. How did the news of Paul Reubens’ death hit you? Ian: (8:15PM) Man. Unfortunately for me you know all the right questions (8:15PM) I was heartbroken. Didn’t even wanna do a memorial post kind of things (8:16PM) He was young. And was kinda working towards a resurgence (it seemed to me) (8:17PM) I love him. His show was based on a forgotten format that things like “Howdee doodee” and “captain kangaroo” perfected, but there had been regional versions. In the same way that Elvira was a play on regional horror hosts like Svengali. (8:24PM) And so he took that and made genuinely great comedy that had a streak of “fuck you” in it that was really powerful. And people love him, but they don’t always appreciate how brilliant his character was. How thoughtful, satirical, and layered Pee Wee was. He hired Tim burton for gods sakes, right out of film school. (8:24PM) And that’s not even my favorite role of his! I adore Mystety Men. And he’s such a great part of that (8:25PM) Long live Paul Reubens. May we all work as hard to do the best version of what we can.
DAY 3 (Wednesday 08-09-2023)
Tim: (11:57AM) Day three! Sorry about the delay. I never watched much PeeWee but I also know that his work has influenced me simply because it influenced you so much (11:58AM) I always wonder what it feels like to be one of the lucky people who creates such a lasting character (11:59AM) Ian, you aren’t going to believe the circumstances with which I’m texting you now, but I’m getting a pedicure. Because the washing of feet is involved in Hindu wedding ceremonies and I don’t want to freak everyone out Ian: (12:25PM) You should get a tattoo on your foot that says “I love Hindu weddings” Tim: (12:26PM) Hahaha, yeah, other than a butt, that’s the funniest place to find a weird tattoo Ian: (12:27PM) Get love and hate on your toe knuckles Tim: (12:29PM) Or, the cast of FRIENDS Ian: (12:30PM) Have you had to learn other traditions to prepare for the wedding? Or is it all pretty straightforward? Tim: (12:32PM) The traditions vary wildly from different regions, but for ours I get the gist. One of her cousins will be conducting it, and my mom will be leading the “i dos” part. It’s a ton of things with layers of meaning. But I get it.. by the end of it we will DEFINITELY feel cosmically married Ian: (12:33PM) Three days after you get married you can see a new color. Technically I’m not supposed to tell you till after the wedding. The color is called “yartdoo” [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (12:34PM) You mentioning Mystery Men took me down a bit of a rabbit hole in terms of the movies origins. I always assumed Ben Stiller directed it Ian: (12:35PM) I love that movie. I was 30 before I realized it had flopped lol Watch it as a parody of the Schumacher Batman movies and it makes way more sense Tim: (12:51PM) I remember watching it and loving it. Maybe even at your house (12:51PM) I finally watched all of The Cable Guy a month or so ago and it left me feeling like I’d just seen one of the greatest movies of all time Ian: (12:51) That cast is amazing and mostly still alive. I wish someone was brave enough to reboot it as a Marvel parody (12:52PM) I still need to see that. Funny that it’s been a gap for both of us for so long Tim: (12:52PM) What’s interesting is that it’s commenting on cable the same way we comment on the internet today (12:53PM) And at some point The Cable Guy pretty accurately foretells the world we’re in now Ian: (12:53PM) Whoa (12:53PM) I know it’s legendary! I wish Ben Stiller directed more in that way (12:54PM) He’s been a great actor in some movies, but it feels like when he’s writing or directing, it’s really elevated (not fact checking myself with IMDb) (12:54PM) What are your earliest internet memories? Talk to me about how it’s evolved in your life time. Tim: (1:13PM) I don’t remember when we got it, but we were still in L.A. — I think the desktop always stayed in my room back then, and we used Computer-Serve discs. I remember using the Netscape browser primarily and constantly visiting StarWars.com (1:13PM) I loved how websites felt back then. Like something that was constantly under construction (1:18PM) I remember being a part of random nerdy forums. I don’t remember what any of them were. There are pluses an minuses to the level of anonymity you could have back then Ian: (1:22PM) Websites all felt like little clubhouses. Like “oh wow, a place for me to go because I like Gillian’s Island” or whatever the site was Tim: (1:30PM) Now we just wait for someone to tweet about it. Or, I suppose that world has been consolidated into Reddit Ian: (1:39PM) Discord kind of functions like that. Small communities you have to sort of seek out. No algorithm that leads you to it. And similarly to the internet of old, it has a weird dark underbelly you’ll come into contact with lol (1:39PM) I bet the Star Wars discords are absolutely wild Tim: (1:41PM) Haha, yeah, I bet they’re totally different. I remember approaching the Star Wars forums with a sense of reverence to the old fans who knew all this lore from expanded universe books I never read because I was so focused on reading Darth Maul and Padme’s journals --
Ian: (1:42PM) I spent a week working up the courage to ask on one of the forums “what does Chewbacca keep in his bandolier sash thing?” And then they immediately responded “condoms.” [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (1:42PM) What Star Wars character would you want to write the journals off (1:43PM) That’s a true story about the forums Tim: (1:43PM) It’s a tie between Qui Gon and Mace (1:43PM) Also, Lobot (1:44PM) Okay, Lobot (1:44PM) Welcome to my brain Ian: (1:44PM) Wait. The middle of an interview is the perfect time to ask this: what was Qui Gon and Maces relationship? They probably came up together, yeah? (1:45PM) Lobot has the highest ratio of cool to important. Most important thing he does is open his eyes when Lando calls him on his watch, but he absolutely rules Tim: (1:45PM) Hahaha (1:45PM) They expanded on him in such a a great way in the Lando comics Ian: (1:45PM) This is his shining moment. --
[Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (1:47PM) Cliche, but I think Mace and Qui Gon had a crush on the same person in the temple, which was awkward because crushes are against the Jedi code Ian: (1:47PM) Oh I love that (1:47PM) They both are sort of rule breakers yeah? Tim: (1:48PM) Mace’s purple lightsaber is representative of somehow channeling both sides of the force. He’s got a little more stank on his force, know what I mean? Ian: (1:48PM) Hahahahaha Tim: (1:49PM) And Qui Gon is philosophically rogue because he doesn’t ask follow up questions about things like “hey, who is the dad of that kids?” (1:49PM) Kid* Ian: (1:49PM) I wish we got to see him really lose it in the movies. Show him scare obi wan a little bit Tim: (1:50PM) I think George came up with the most interesting thing by accident when he introduced Dooku as Qui Gon’s former master in Attack of the Clones Ian: (1:50PM) “And remember: never ask who the dad is.” [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (1:51PM) Imagine Qui Gon running through the jungle with Count Dooku on his back like yoda Tim: (1:51PM) We can’t turn this into a Star Wars interview but I’m obsessed with the idea that Shmi Skywalker has cousins and maybe even siblings out there with the last name Skywalker (1:52PM) That is, assuming Skywalker is her birth name (1:52PM) But we act like the name starts with Anakin when it doesn’t (1:52PM) There’s a whole family tree of Skywalkers before him! [Ian gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (1:53PM) But I guess they didn’t have the force. Just a bunch of losers before Shmi hooked up with midicloreans Ian: (1:53PM) Must have been a weird night [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (1:58PM) So, I’ve been thinking about the idea of starting out in comedy to sort of impress, or make your parents laugh. There are great examples of that sparking the need to entertain others… (1:58PM) But there’s also a point in which that shifts (1:59PM) The idea of making your elders laugh shifts, either because they’re gone, or because the times just move on (1:59PM) I’m wondering where you think you stood on that spectrum when you started, and where that need is directed now. Is it people our age? The generation coking up? Or just a the population at large? (2:00PM) Coming up* (2:00PM) Not coking up (2:00PM) But I suppose we can keep that as an option Ian: (2:01PM) Hahaha as in, who are we trying to make laugh? Tim: (2:01PM) Yeah (2:02PM) I don’t think my focus was ever really people my age. There was this feeling of trying to prove to the people older than us that were funny. Be that bookers, more established comics, etc Ian: (2:02PM) I think about that a lot. One of the reasons I like comedy is that it works or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t work, it’s subjective a bit, but it’s helpful to be able to say “oh okay, I want this to work better for any crowd” (2:05PM) We came up as stand-ups, which has a side of it that is crass, or edgy, or sort of… relatable. That I don’t think either of us ever fully related to. So it helped us both figure out how to make a larger group laugh, but it also gave us a weird tone. We didn’t talk about dating, we didn’t talk about sex, but we really loved comedy and had to figure out how to balance that stuff. For me, it probably would have helped if I had more of that in me. But I don’t think I ever really consciously approached it that way. (2:05PM) I’d start at “what is it I want to be doing up there” and then go to “how do I make that work as consistently as I can?” (2:08PM) I did a set in front of my wife’s friend for the first time a couple weeks ago and she said “you have such an intellectual approach” and I was like… what? I opened with “when I go to McDonald’s they let me make my own food” and then I yelled about nonsense for a few minutes and then I put on a newsie hat and said how bad it looked. In my head, I’m playing against trying to seem “smart” or whatever. I don’t need them to think I’m smart, in fact it probably gets in the way if they do. Tim: (2:24PM) I used to think it was a common understanding that you aren’t supposed to talk about your day job on stage. But that is absolutely not the case Ian: (2:24PM) Hahahaha Tim: (2:24PM) We both invented exaggerated stage personas (2:24PM) I was someone visiting from a fictional place (2:25PM) You were someone inventing time travel Ian: (2:25PM) Hahahaha (2:25PM) Yeah. I mean, every comedian watches Richard Pryor, but I think we zoomed in on different aspects of what he does Tim: (2:27PM) A disturbing joke of his that I think about all the time ends with something like “she gave birth to me around 9:30.” People don’t give him enough credit for being absurd, but it’s all there, down to him giving a personality to a car tire that he shot Ian: (2:28PM) Totally. Everyone says how honest he was, but it was always baked inside of something really entertaining. Absurd. He was always using everything he had, and that’s my favorite thing to see a comedian do. Really put as much of themselves into as they can. To me, that’s what bill burr and Andy Kaufman have in common. Tim: (2:35PM) How do you think someone with Pryor’s talent would do starting out today? Ian: (2:39PM) It’d be amazing. I think he’d still need to figure out the early steps of his career where he was mirroring Cosby. I think that was him figuring out comedy. THEN he could start figuring out what he wanted to do with it. So today, maybe he’d start as a TikTok star. Then he’d get cancelled for saying or doing something unnecessary. Then he’d regroup and stumble his way to an amazing POV. Tim: (2:43PM) People comment now about how there are no movie stars with box office certainty under the age of 30. We’re still watching Tom Cruise jump off of building, etc. I wonder if a present-day Pryor would have the ability to reach that same status of “household name.” Perhaps that’s a concept that’s dying, or evolving into something new now Ian: (2:44PM) I mean, he didn’t get that young. His film career in that way, sorta mirrors someone like Kevin Hart, no? Tim: (2:52PM) Yeah, but I’m still talking about becoming famous as a comedian. I can’t think of anyone since Kevin Hart other than maybe Tiffany Haddish who has reached that level of recognition. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anyone since Kevin Hart who’s had a special play in theaters either. And with everyone’s focus so disjointed now it feels a little impossible. Ian: (2:52PM) Yeah that’s a good point Tim: (2:53PM) I’ll put it this way. I don’t think most Black people enjoyed Seinfeld in the 90s, but I bet more Black people knew who he was then than know who John Mullaney is now Ian: (2:53PM) Wow. Roasted. (2:53PM) You’re right! Tim: (2:56PM) What if that’s how I ended this interview? Ian: (2:58PM) What if this is how you ended this interview? [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (2:59PM) I can’t believe the shit you pulled out of me here lol Tim: (3:01PM) Yeah, it’s weird. Something about the three day thing (3:30PM) The algorithm just showed me this, which makes me think it’s spying:
(3:31PM) You have a show now called ‘Oppenheimer Jr.’ — how long have you been working on that? Ian: (3:40PM) Couple weeks! It’s sort of my figuring out how to get a group of Chicago folks working together (3:40PM) We’ve been shooting a bunch of stuff for it, and working out weird bits. I’m excited. It’s gonna be fun. Tim: (3:45PM) At the start of the pandemic, you had a weekly twitch show called Saturday Night Quarantine. I know you’ve talksed a ton about this in other interviews since, but it seems like you’re using what you learned from that experience for these newer projects. What were those things? Ian: (3:46PM) Here’s a preview of Oppenheimer jr --
Tim: (3:47PM) Lol, should I use this link in the public version of this conversation? Ian: (3:47PM) You can include the clip! The link might change? Tim: (3:50PM) Awesome! (3:51PM) It’s so funny seeing you in a video with Charlie again (3:55PM) It feels like just yesterday you were interviewing him as God Ian: (6:10PM) Hahaha he was saying how it reminded him of that! That’s the Lincoln lodge basement [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (8:34PM) Sorry there wasn’t a smooth cathartic landing to this convo, but this was fun! Hope you had a good time Ian: (8:34PM) Lol yeah it was awesome!
END OF INTERVIEW
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This was great, Tim. Some heavy stuff in day 2 that got me thinkin (and FEELIN). Thanks for putting it out there!