A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Writer/Director Alexis Wilkinson
Kurt Vonnegut, Wisconsin, Harvard, Jamaican Soda, Humor Writing, & More!
A [BLANK] Conversation With… is an interview series where guests engage in a three-day conversation via their preferred mode of text-based communication, with no commitments to the length or frequency of their responses.
What you’re about to read is a groundbreaking moment for this series, because Alexis Wilkinson is the first guest that I’ve never met in person! In fact, despite following each other on the-app-formerly-known-as-Twitter for some time, we’ve never interacted much outside of the occasional ‘like’ or ‘retweet’ until now.
Wilkinson first came to my attention due to the many headlines in 2014 about her being the first African American female president of The Harvard Lampoon.
And since, she has written on shows like Veep and Brooklyn Nine-Nine, published humor pieces in magazines such as The New Yorker, and most recently co-wrote the hilarious Realm audio series The Co-Founder.
She’s also a director! And a prime example of her work in that sphere is this sketch titled, “PC Culture Comes To The Plantation” (which she also wrote!) —
Every interview in this series has tested the limits of the format in different ways. And a few pitfalls were made on my end in this one that are funny as hell in hindsight.
Please enjoy my three-day conversation with writer/director, Alexis Wilkinson via text message!
Enjoy… Oh! And if you don’t like curse words or explicit content or whatever phrase you prefer that defines that kind of thing, this is your warning:
There are swear words in this chat!
TABLE OF CONVERSATION:
Kentucky, The Ad Industry, & Artificial Intelligence
“Slave Black,” Grandparents, & Writing in Different Mediums
Miscommunication, Sci-Fi, & Jamaican Soda
Note: Since Tim lives in New York, each text is timestamped in Eastern Standard Time. However, certain reactions like “iPhone haha”s and ❤️s exist out of time. We have no way of retrospectively knowing exactly when those buttons were pressed. There have been minor adjustments of the text for clarity.
DAY 1 (Monday 08-21-2023)
Tim Barnes: (11:51AM) Hello Alexis! Welcome to the interview. I hope this isn’t too early. I try and wait until until 9-ishAM PT for people on the west coast Alexis Wilkinson: (12:20PM) I’m actually in Kentucky so you’re good! Tim: (12:22PM) Oh wow! What brings you there? Alexis: (12:28PM) I’m working for an ad agency here. It’s been a nice change of pace. Tim: (12:29PM) Ah, so you can tell that I’m basing all of my info on scraps of internet information. You’re the first person I’ve interviewed in this series who I haven’t actually met! [Alexis gives this an iPhone "!!"] (12:30PM) Every headline about Mitch McConnell must hit harder for you now (12:48PM) How does the ad life compare to the TV writing life? Alexis: (4:16PM) Don’t even remind me about that turtle. But I’m from Wisconsin and was in high school volunteering for the Scott walker recall so I’m used to these political trenches. (4:19PM) Ad life is…different. Less glamorous maybe, but you work for free almost never. I struck way before this WGA Strike lol. Ridiculous industry. Non-serious executives. Not a way to live. (4:20PM) I’d like to own a home one day, you know? Tim: (4:23PM) Hahaha, yes. I totally understand. What were some of the difficulties that emerged for you in Hollywood? You’ve got one of those résumés that should open so many doors. One of the great things about this strike is that writers are generally more open about the pitfalls. It’s certainly helped me get over that “is my lack of employment my fault?!” feeling Alexis: (4:33PM) I am very lucky coming from the Lampoon, which made everything much easier, so I don’t really have a right to complain. But that has never stopped me before so…I would say that my main difficulty, outside of trying to be a Businesswoman instead of a just a goofball tellin’ my lil jokey jokes, was finding my own comedic voice. I’m also so easily distractible and LA was very distracting at 21. Tim: (4:34PM) That brings me to my first big question. As someone who attended Harvard — are you a member of the Illuminati? Alexis: (4:34PM) …you understand you’re on a list now, right? For that question. Tim: (4:35PM) Yeah, but it’s hopefully on the “Nice” side. Isn’t Santa a member? Alexis: (4:35PM) Your name on the List is getting larger and larger…you know too much… Tim: (4:36PM) Hahaha (4:41PM) I was still in Chicago when I read about you being the first Black female president of The Harvard Lampoon, and I was thrilled. INSTANT follow on Twitter. Still feeling some of the residual glow of Obama’s first election, you know? I’m curious about the “finding your voice” moment you’re in. Lately, I’ve found that so much of my voice was tied to the general energy of the Obama era. And now that Trump is gone, we have our first vibe-less president in a while. This sounds insane, but I feel like the Biden administration is forcing everyone to find their own voice (4:41PM) Have you found that voice now? Alexis: (5:19PM) Hahah well I hope my Twitter content since then hasn’t been too much of a let down. I’m no Obama. I think I’m still developing that voice to be quite honest. I also think I’m hesitant to put myself in any one box. I did standup for like a month in New York on that journey back in college which was really enlightening. But performing is hard! And I don’t like being looked at too much. Leave me alone lol Maybe one day when they stop screwing over actors as well I’ll give it a whirl. [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (5:46PM) It did stand out how infrequent your posts were. Which I think just means you’re a more advanced human being. Breaking out of labels has become a bit of a theme in a lot of these interviews. Has embracing your inner businesswoman helped you beyond being able to afford stuff? Also, tell me more about your month of standup! Was there a theme to your jokes? Alexis: (6:17PM) Again, writing for free is not my style. And definitely not writing for whatever X is. I think refocusing has given me a more long-term look at things. I put less pressure on myself to take everything on all at once. Maybe that’s just aging haha. My month of standup was interesting. I did a set at what was essentially a Waffle House. And I was the only girl and just very different from the other people who got up so all the waitresses sat down and just stared at my like I was a panda walking upright. It was funny. The theme was like “Harvard, black girl, dating” what else did I have at that point? (6:17PM) A blind comic did come up after me once and asked the audience if I was cute. And then proposed. Very uncomfortable but pretty funny. (6:18PM) Stared at me* lord the typos have come already Tim: (6:19PM) To err is human, to typo is divine Alexis: (6:20PM) My favorite Einstein quote. [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (6:21PM) Did someone in your life influence you when it came to looking at a hyped app like Twitter and saying “nah, I’m not doing this for free…”? Alexis: (6:22PM) Ok why are you acting like I never tweeted? I did! But once I started making money that was low priority. I had some bangers back in the day. Tim: (6:22PM) hahaha Alexis: (6:22PM) I got a gig writing greeting cards off Twitter. It was good to show what I could write. (6:23PM) But now people can look it up. Tim: (6:23PM) Okay, okay!!! You tweeted! Alexis: (6:23PM) Put some respect on my handle lol Tim: (6:28PM) I think about some of the odd comedy writing jobs that have emerged from the internet, and its clear to me that they’ll one day seem like what older comedians talk about in interviews where they were writing for a radio hour sponsored by some sort of soup, or literally cocaine before it was illegal. (6:28PM) It feels like greeting cards are a great entry point for working in ads Alexis: (6:28PM) The only coke reformulation I wanna see is reintroducing the cocaine. What happened to respecting traditions??? (6:30PM) That’s actually not how into it. I started in-house at Old Navy after I had worked for someone doing a little ✨lifestyle✨ type blog for a fashion brand. She edited that and then ended up being creative director at old navy. (6:30PM) If you ever pick up the “anytime chino,” that name is all me baby lol [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (6:30PM) I’ve written in so many mediums. It doesn’t make sense to explain haha (6:31PM) How I got* into LORD HAVE MERCY (6:31PM) you better edit this. Don’t have me out here looking illiterate. (6:32PM) I have autocorrect and thick thumbs. Tim: (6:46PM) I mean, it is pretty helpful to know that even Harvard grads have difficultly typing on phones (6:48PM) It seems like you’ve truly embraced the fact that you work in so many mediums. That kind of thing used to hold me back. Being a podcast producer by day, and a struggling standup comedian by night, for instance — wondering “Why can’t I just be a struggling standup comedian ALL the time?!” [Alexis gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (6:49PM) What I used to love about standup was the constant impulse to do it. There were places to be at night, and people to impress. (6:49PM) Have you found a healthy routine that balances what you do for work with your passion projects? Alexis: (7:44PM) I think I’m getting better at balancing. And when I say I don’t like writing for free, I mean for others. I do it all the time for myself. Really want to do a collection of short stories sooner rather than later. Over the years, I’ve gotten much better at not exhausting myself so much creatively that I don’t even have the energy to journal or even pick up a pen lol. But it’s hard! Tim: (7:49PM) It is! I’ve been writing sci-fi short stories. They honestly aren’t that great but it’s a unique feeling of accomplishment and I can sense that I’m getting better at it. Also — isn’t it great completing something that doesn’t require production to fully exist? [Alexis gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (7:50PM) You’ve written many humor pieces for places like The New Yorker. That’s a style of writing that I find difficult to carve a unique “voice” in (7:52PM) Like, I can hear David Sedaris reading most things under the banner of ‘humor.’ Whenever I try to write a comedic essay I feel like I have to kick David Sedaris out of my head (7:52PM) I suppose I’m asking — how did you carve your lane in that space? Alexis: (7:57PM) Hmmm. That’s a good question. Lots of trial and error. But also taking note of what I think is funny across a variety of sources. I love Sedaris but also love cartoons and Kurt Vonnegut. And using the emotions I’m feeling and finding the funny thing in them. That’s why AI could never replace me. It doesn’t have trauma. That’s my secret sauce 🤌 (7:58PM) It’s a work in progress though. I look back on some of my earlier stuff like…girl…what is this? Haha but that’s how it should be right? Means you’re evolving Tim: (8:40PM) Gay, straight or otherwise, the voice inside of every Black person that says “Girl… what is this?” is paramount. “Girl… what is this?” helped us survive as a people (8:42PM) It’s getting late so no pressure to respond today. But do you fear the rapidly evolving state of A.I.? Just a little nightmare fuel of ya Alexis: (9:31PM) I already answered! No. Besides, writing isn’t my only skill. And the world is on fire. AI is the least of my problems. Good night! (9:38PM) Wait one last side note: Ai isn’t even copyrightable. And until it can stop just chopping and screwing other people’s stuff, I think it’s just like any other new technology. It only will eliminate jobs if we let it. And if companies don’t care about IP anymore. And one of those things is very unlikely to happen. Now I’m gonna go take a bubble bath. Ya dun stressed me out.
DAY 2 (Tuesday 08-22-2023)
Tim:
(8:43PM) Hahaha. I hope the bubble bath calmed you. I’ve been thinking about the “anytime chino” --
(8:43AM) There’s a subtle brilliance. “Anytime” is very underutilized (8:44AM) I’d order an “anytime burger” in a heartbeat (8:47AM) How did your family end up in Wisconsin? Alexis: (9:26AM) Hahah thank you thank you. And the great migration. That’s how we ended up there. But my dad was born in Jamaica. Met my mom in grad school when she was an undergrad. Tim: (9:47AM) I just recently learned the term ADOS (American Descendant of Slaves). And it was a surreal experience accepting that. Like, “oh yeah, that’s way more specific than ‘African American.” What was it like growing up Black in Wisconsin on top of having a more nuanced background than what most Americans think of when they hear the term “Black”? (Unfortunately, I fear I will connect this to Obama again) (9:54AM) *American Descendent of Slavery (not slaves) Alexis: (9:55AM) Haha I say I’m “slave black” sometimes which really catches people off guard. Growing up, I was in between Barack and a hard place (sorry sorry SORRY). I moved around that state and Illinois and my mom always very much prepared me for being different and having to do everything 2x backwards and in heels to get what I want. So I just got used to it. And also learned how to turn those points of difference into strengths. I think having an unusual background gave/gives me a unique perspective on things. (9:55AM) At least that’s what I tell myself. Tim: (10:02AM) I think Issa Rae has commented on this before. I haven’t seen all of Insecure (Now I’M the sorry one!), so I don’t know if her character in the show is Senegalese-American like she is in real life. But there is a forced blending of things in America where you just have to deal with the stamp you’re given. I can see her choosing to have her character be “slave black” for the sake of clarity in the story she wanted to tell. Are you often faced with such choices in your creative work? (10:45AM) Sorry, that question was way too intense for the morning Alexis: (12:01AM) I don’t limit myself to my own experience which is part of the reason I don’t get on screen much or write things where I’m a character. That’s a hard balance to strike. Tim: (12:19PM) I haven’t finished listening to The Co-Founder— the narrative podcast you co-created (this isn’t a trend, I promise!) and a scene that stood out to me involved a phone call between Juliet and her grandmother in episode 3. The two characters had a sense of friendship that felt unique. Is that inspired by a relationship in your life?
Listen To A Preview of The Co-Founder
Written by Mimi Mondal, , Alexa Wejko, and Alexis Wilkinson
Alexis: (4:34PM) Heyyyy appreciate the listen! Partially, yes. I loved my grandma very much and miss her. She was a really big part of my childhood. She passed away before I was Juliet’s age though. (4:34PM) Also the dynamic was different. But I think a grandma’s wisdom and words can really mean something. Tim: (4:40PM) My grandfather recently passed away and I’ve been reflecting on the unique bond between grandparents and their grandchildren. I don’t want to read too much into that scene in ‘The Co-Founder’ but would you say that exchange was a bit of wish fulfillment — a level of conversation you wish you could have with her by the time you reached Juliet' (4:41) s age? (4:41PM) Sorry about how that got cut off there, lol Alexis: (4:45PM) Haha I guess I never thought of it like that, but yes. I really wish she had been around and was still around. [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (4:49PM) Juliet is very different than me in a lot of ways, but like you said, grandparents and their grandkids often have a special bond. A lot of things I write have something that’s inspired by something in my life. In my first screenplay the main character was named “Blythe” which was this girl I thought was super cool in like 3rd grade lol. (4:50PM) I don’t even remember her last name but I remember that being her first. Tim: (4:52PM) I find myself sprinkling strange nuances from the people in my life as well. And I’m glad I’m doing more of that. I’m so annoyed by some of my earlier work that seems more about trying to project myself instead of explore the lives of others [Alexis gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (4:53PM) You mentioned Kurt Vonnegut earlier. What would you say his influence has been on you? I also must admit that I watched a long podcast interview with you over the weekend in preparation for this — and that gave me some insight into some of the other losses in your life. We don’t have to get into the specifics of those if you’d rather not. But I’d assume Vonnegut’s ability to find humor in some of the most dire situations is what drew you in.
The long podcast video in question:
Ground Up 036 - Laugh it Off w/ Alexis Wilkinson
Alexis: (4:54PM) Yeah exactly very “so it goes” way of looking at things sometimes, particularly death. So when I read him in high school I just never stopped. His lectures are really good too. Tim: (4:56PM) And you gotta love those goofy little drawings (4:58PM) There’s a point in so many documentaries about men where it’s like, “and then he abandoned his wife and family to pursue his dreams.” — and unfortunately there was a bit of that in his life, lol. (5:01PM) I don’t remember if you mentioned this here or in the long podcast interview I watched — but are you writing a novel? Alexis: (6:16PM) I’m working on a collection of short stories, yeah. (6:17PM) But who knows when I’ll be done Tim: (6:21PM) That’s exciting! Are they fiction or non-fiction? Alexis: (6:26PM) Fiction! Though I do have some non-fiction stuff written but I think I want more things to inevitably happen to me before I put that out there. And based on my track record, it’s coming lol Tim: (6:54PM) Was it difficult learning the structure of a humor piece, vs sitcom script, vs short story? Alexis: (7:49PM) I try to do a lot of research before I start something and I also just imitate people until I get it right lol Tim: (7:59PM) Who are some other writers that you love? Is Barack Obama one of them? (just saying that to keep up with the annoying Obama theme on my end) Alexis: (8:05PM) Hahah big sedaris fan. Read a lot of Simon rich when I was first starting out. Junot diaz. Jonathan escoffery. Octavia butler. Still Re-read bell hooks often. I know Lane Moore personally and really like her funny books. Tomi Adeyemi and I were classmates and she’s awesome. Ashley Ford. The poet billy collins. (8:05PM) Stop bringing up my ex-husband it’s inappropriate Tim: (8:06PM) Wow, this is a great time for me to promote an upcoming show --
(8:06PM) The first ever commercial in this series Alexis: (8:07PM) AYYYYY ok awesome tell her I say hello and that I also contributed to the commercial [Tim gives this an iPhone "!!"] Tim: (8:08PM) My wife (who doesn’t like being called “wife” so we’ve settled in “woman king”) is reading Tomi Adeyemi’s ‘Children of Blood and Bone’ and loving it [Alexis gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (8:10PM) She also works in city politics and wanted me to tell you that she both identifies with and longs to attain Selina Meyers’ ability to speak her every thought with abandon [Alexis gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (8:11PM) But we probably can’t talk much about Veep due to strike rules (8:12PM) You were classmates with Tomi in college?! Could you sense her brilliance then? (8:13PM) I guess you kind of can’t say “no” Alexis: (8:36PM) Haha she was extremely focused. She had a blog and really manifested become a famous author. Quite incredible to witness (8:36PM) Also just a sweet lady as well. It’s nice when good people do well. (8:37PM) Becoming* Tim: (8:34PM) I don’t want to keep you too late, but I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about your texting style that’s so different and I just noticed that most of your final sentences end with a punctuation mark. True dedication to the craft of writing. So, final question for the day — How do you feel about lower cased social media posts. I recently converted to that style and you seem to tweet that way as well. I don’t know what it is about it. Perhaps it just makes me feel like bell hooks while posting about potato chips Alexis: (8:15PM) Hahaha I do like to end my sentences in texts. and all lowercase for me just makes social posts less…serious? Earnest? But I also LOVE an occasional CAPITALIZATION for EMPHASIS, as my friends know lol talk tomorrow! [Tim gives this an iPhone "!!"]
DAY 3 (Wednesday 08-23-2023)
Tim: (11:10AM) Day three! JUDGMENT DAY (11:12AM) Thinking of Octavia Butler and Vonnegut and a few of the Star Wars references in ‘The Co-Founder’ — do you consider yourself to be a big sci-fi fan? Would you like to work more in that space? Alexis: (11:46AM) I absolutely would! I never really got into any Star Stuff (as I call it) when I was younger, but I have a bit as an adult. I love the philosophical questions that technology can pose more than anything. But I looooove a dystopia. It’s nice to imagine there’s something worse than this, yk? Hilarious. Tim: (11:56AM) Wow, so to you a dystopia is a form of relief? Never thought about it that way, but I bet that’s the key to why those stories work. Even if the vibe is “we’re clearly heading toward this” it can make you appreciate the moment more Alexis: (12:04PM) I think it’s the same impulse that makes me love true crime. Like, it’s not logical, but if the murderer is murdering THEM, they can’t possibly be murdering ME at the same time. Just doesn’t make sense. Tim: (11:52PM) Do you think there’s any connection there with your personality? I know that sounds rude as hell, lol. But I mean in terms of deflection. Using comedy as armor, etc. Alexis: (12:52PM) hahahahah omg. Damn. (11:52PM) He said “so you’re broken. Tell me about that.” [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (11:53PM) I don’t think I’m deflecting. I think I’m the only truly accepting. Deflection is not thinking about it. When you do and can laugh at it, that’s true acceptance. (12:54PM) Also boy you don’t know me! Tim: (12:54PM) Hahaha (12:56PM) I will say, that you’re great at ending your responses with a joke, which I may have misconstrued as some sort of deflection. But I agree— jokes are a great way of looking at the world or your own life from a birds view and give it that jab of context (12:56PM) Jab of Context — a new vaccine from Barnes-Co Alexis: (12:57PM) There was a study on humor, one of the few, I think I use what’s called affiliative humor. Meaning I do it to bond to people, make them like me. Obviously this has backfired in this instance lolll but have I not answered your questions? My jokes only reaffirm my answers, not deflect. (12:58PM) I’m pulling uno reverse. This is a you problem I’ve decided lol. Tim: (12:59PM) I think we’re exploring one of the many faults of text communication, lol. I truly hope I’m not offending you in some way! Alexis: (1:00PM) You think you can offend me? That’s how I know you don’t know me lol. I’m kidding. It’s fine. Lots to think about. You’re doing amazing sweetie [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (1:02PM) Hahahaha, great. What’s the mood of Kentucky vs California? Alexis: (1:04PM) Also, listen, if you read thru this and I start sounding too bitchy or too broken, just cut that. People need to find out I’m a broken bitch in person or not at all!!! (1:04PM) I’ve only been in Kentucky like 3 months so the jury’s still out. Tim: (1:07PM) No I don’t think you’re coming across that way at all. I just got worried I was coming off as flippant in some way. Are you a person who likes having a daily routine? Moving always causes a shift in that. I was wondering if Kentucky affected that. I suppose the biggest shift from LA to Kentucky is the lack of oat milk in coffee shops (wow, this based on no research at all. Kentucky could love oat milk for all I know!) (1:18PM) But that’s a long way of asking — if you do have a regular creative routine, what is it?! For me, writing my ridiculous five jokes every morning and at least one short story a month has been very helpful. I’m re-discovering routine during the strike (1:28PM) Just noticed I already asked that in a different way in day one. Wow, I feel like I’m in an I Think You Should Leave sketch. Sweating bullets over here --
(1:38PM) Let’s start small. What’s your favorite soda? Alexis: (2:31PM) Hahahaha. You good. I like a sprite for the most part. I love a Jamaican soda called Ting. Delicious. And I’m jealous you write one story a month. Feel like I’m either churning shit out or not motivated at all. Tim: (2:39PM) --
(2:41PM) I really enjoy Tananarive Due and Steven Barnes’ “Life Writing” podcast where they tout just writing a sentence a day. That advice really helped me this year. Because you often end up writing more, but there’s a satisfaction to one sentence if that’s all you can muster (2:52PM) Wow, just looked up Ting and it seems super refreshing (2:55PM) Do you visit Jamaica often? Alexis: (3:10PM) No unfortunately. Used to a lot as a kid over summer break but harder to find the time now. (3:11PM) I’ll have to look up that podcast. Tim: (3:16PM) The podcast is great for writing advice and the joy of hearing two Black married writers who are madly in love with each other, lol [Alexis gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (3:16PM) Nothing beats summer break memories as a kid. I bet you had some great times there (3:17PM) Is there anything in particular that stands out when you think back on those trips? Did your “American-ness” stick out? Alexis: (4:08PM) Coming from Wisconsin is was soooooo nice to just blend in. Like nobody watching me. Looking at me weird, wondering why I was there. Until I opened my midwestern ass mouth I was just any other Jamaican kid walking around. Did a lot of good for my self esteem I think. (4:08PM) It was* Tim: (4:33PM) Yeah, that’s an experience I think so many people out here should have. I say that as someone who’s never had it in that way. Do you ever get that feeling when you travel of, like “Oh, this is the Kansas version of my friend Tonya back home?” Alexis: (4:38PM) Haha do you mean do I see people who remind me of people from my hometown in other places? (4:38PM) Oh, do you think I’m in Kansas? I’m in Kentucky hahaha Tim: (4:42PM) Yeah! And no I didn’t forget about Kentucky — I was trying to project someone who is neither of us, lol Alexis: (4:43PM) I definitely see people who I have to double take to make sure that isn’t Jake who works at qdoba and things like that, sure (4:43PM) Is that not normal? I thought everyone felt that Tim: (5:00PM) Yeah! I think it happens to everyone. Just wasn’t sure to what extent. In writing it kinda feels like you learn there are only so types of characters and it’s all about how you remix them. If there is a God, it seems like that’s what‘a going on Alexis: (5:03PM) My sister says I date the same man in different fonts so I really feel that lol [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (5:11PM) Wow, that’s brilliant (5:12PM) Have you dated the Wingdings version yet? Alexis: (5:15PM) He’s undoubtedly up next. Definitely got a comic sans in there though [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (5:46PM) Well, I am unexpectedly getting some drinks with friends now and I fear accidentally repeating a question again, but this has been so much fun! Thanks for being the first guest I’ve never met in person. It was a true roller coaster in all of the best ways. There’s still the rest of the day left so you can write whatever you want until midnight! Lol. But also, if you have any questions for me I’ll try to answer. I hope you had a good time! I think people will love this one Alexis: (5:47PM) Thanks so much for…having me? Entertaining my delusions? All of that. It was a blast. Cheers! [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"]
END OF INTERVIEW
Did you enjoy this conversation? Let me know what you think in the comments. Anyone you think I should interview in the future? You guessed it — leave a suggestion in the comments!
Be on the look out for an interview with filmmaker Adewale Olukayode soon!
