A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Multi-hyphenate Ashok Kondabolu (a.k.a. Dapwell)
Talking poetry, Twitter, Peter Smith, Joan Didion, Google docs, politics and culture
A [BLANK] Conversation With… is an interview series where guests engage in a three-day conversation via their preferred mode of text-based communication, with no commitments to the length or frequency of their responses.
In any conversation, Ashok Kondabolu effortlessly dives into a mixture of the holy trinity of Ps: politics, philosophy and pop culture.
I first met him in 2018 while serving as podcast producer for the Earwolf edition of the Kondabolu Brothers which he co-hosts with his older brother, Hari. It was kinda surreal since I first heard of them a few years earlier while working at a Dunkin’ Donuts in Chicago. My comedy friend Odinaka Ezeokoli appeared there unexpectedly, and for reasons I don’t recall, got me hip to the existence of Hari, Ashok, and the podcast. A while later, I was in the position of being able to interview Hari at WBEZ, and a few years after that, found myself assisting both Kondobolus as they formulated ideas for their live podcast events in New York and beyond.
It was then that I grew to recognize and appreciate the unique talents of Ashok, who is at once a poet, actor, “hype man” for the rap group Das Racist, radio host, producer and more.
Hey, How Ya Doin?, 2018
That blend of talents is why I asked him to voice the Martian hipster, Allistar, in Maurice on Mars.
And Ashok’s recent Twitter activity peaked my interest in what’s been going on in his life and in his brain. So, I was excited that he agreed to chat in the experimental format of this series in which I interview people for three days in any text-based interface of their choice. We talked via text in April 2023, at a point in which Ashok was gearing up for a move and settling into whatever the new normal is since the Covid pandemic.
Enjoy… Oh! And if you don’t like curse words or explicit content or whatever phrase you prefer that defines that kind of thing, this is your warning:
There are swear words in this conversation!
Note: Ashok and I both live on the East Coast. Each message is timestamped, however, certain reactins like “iPhone haha”s and ❤️s via text exists out of time. We have no way of retrospectively knowing exactly when those buttons were pressed. There have been minor adjustments of the text for clarity.
DAY 1 (Monday 04-10-2023)
Ashok Kondabolu: (11:16AM) Hey, down to start today if you’re game? (11:16AM) “One more game” —crossfire Tim Barnes: (11:21AM) Hahaha, yeah! Let’s do it! So, you recently moved? Ashok: (11:23AM) I wish. I’ve lived in the same apartment on Montrose Ave. for 13 years. I’m hoping to move later this year. Tim: (11:25AM) Ah, yes. Is that exciting then? The process is pretty exhausting but if you pretend you’re a Succession character it can be slightly fun. Ashok: (11:28AM) I’m at the outset of the process, probably be much later this year. When I was 20 me and my friend I won’t name because he’s a public official now went to a bunch of open houses for multi million dollar apartments. (11:29AM) It just left us freaked out and depressed (like most things leave you feeling.) (11:30AM) Also, that probably doesn’t rate as a transgression for a public official these days. Maybe if he torched one. (11:31AM) I’ve aged out of this part of South Williamsburg Aka LOS SURES. (11:32AM) The block is rife with U-Haul trucks and twenty two year old white girls drinking coffee with their parents. Time 2 go… Tim: (11:35AM) Yeah, I’d love to hear that story turned into a talking point by a politician. Guess it depends on the politician though. I think I’ve been to your apartment twice. Once was just to get to know you before I was brought on to producer the podcast with you and Harry and the other (if I’m not mistaken) was for a watch party of his first standup special. It’s a great space! But, yeah, Williamsburg is different every time I visit. Everyone is wearing muted colors and beanies like an unconscious cult is emerging (11:38PM) And this city changes faster than any other. As a newcomer since 2016, it’s been hard to get a grasp of what things once were and what they’re becoming. Do you feel like you have an accurate mental map of the changes in South Williamsburg over the past 13 years or has it all sort of blurred? Ashok: (11:49AM) The pandemic really cut down on my streetwalking (hehe) and I’ve only just begin going on miles long aimless walks again, I’m a little out of touch these days. A lot of “when the fuck did that place open?” (11:51AM) North Williamsburg is the Williamsburg people associate with the neighborhood. When that part of the hood gentrified, it was a lot easier to tear down derelict, empty warehouses and apartment blocks than having to go through the effort of displacing longtime residents through ye olde gentrification. But they’re making it happen! They always do. (11:54AM) I’m definitely on a “waddup” basis with maybe 40 percent of the store owners in a 5 block in any direction range, as opposed to the 60-70 percent zone i was hovering at years back. (11:55AM) When I started hanging out around here in the very early oughts, before Bloomberg rezoned large parts of the neighborhood and waterfront, it was still the “hipster era” (shudders) (11:57AM) The neighborhood was largely devoid of TRUE yuppie scum outside of a few buildings. Not to say plenty of the artists and fake artists (“creatives”?) weren’t parentallt subsidized and whatnot, but the kids I was kicking it with who lived here had JOBS AND SHIT. [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (11:58AM) Real ones, where people tell you what to do. (12:00PM) Then come the people who want to be near the artists and creatives but don’t contribute to the scene, then developers just wipe everything out once it’s been made desirable, and boom, Yuppiesville, USA. (Adjacent to Strollersville.) (12:PM) Sometimes I wish I wasn’t born in New York and could move somewhere human, but alas.. Tim: (12:06PM) I definitely identify with that “out of touch” feeling. It feels like it ties into what I’ve been enjoying about your Twitter presence lately. I sent you a long question about that earlier that may or may not make it into the final cut of this interview—but there is something very genuine about the way you use the internet. It cuts through the noise and is honest about the reality we’re living in. You have the remarkable ability to live in the moment that I sort of envy. But you’re also pretty meta about it all. There’s clearly a set of things you’re constantly processing and attempting to put into proper context. Seems oddly appropriate that during all of this you’re gearing up for a move. Are you hoping to find some authenticity in the next location? Ashok: (12:07PM) Holy shit, you’ve embarrassed the kid. (12:07PM) I don’t take compliments well though I’m working on it. (12:08PM) Also I average around 3 likes, .2 retweets per tweet so I’m glad someone appreciates my ramblings. (12:11PM) My “policy” with social media is to try and accurately recreate the experience of talking to me in person as much as is possible. In terms of content but also language. (12:12PM) I was especially dismayed 2010 onwards when non-black people started using AAVE (often incorrectly) in their tweets, like it was all “cool” internet slang for their “fun, new persona!” (12:13PM) I spoke to a fairly well-known girl from Twitter IRL who I knew solely from her slang-filled tweets about rap and the culture. (12:14PM) Was immediately struck by the fact she didn’t speak anything like I would expect, and towards the end of the conversation I asked her about it and she said “oh, you actually talk like that in real life?” [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (12:15PM) Chilled me the bone! I never want to present myself as anything but the striving failure with a heart of bronze that I am, Barnes. (12:15PM) (It was AOC) (12:16PM) jkjk (12:16PM) They must be at least 30 losers who constantly talk about the time AOC served them a gin and tonic at Flats Fixed. (12:16PM) I wish I was one of them.. Tim: (12:20PM) Oh my goodness, yes, that is a horror story Ashok: (12:21PM) *There (12:21PM) I demand we fix that in post! (12:21PM) Man, my vocabulary has gone to shit. I think unclean living a middle age has done a number on the old lexicon. (12:22PM) A number 2, if you catch my drift. (12:22PM) (caca) [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (12:23PM) Fun fact: comedian Kondabolu finds the word caca waaaay too funny. (12:23PM) Try it sometime. Tim: (12:23PM) There is a definitely a code to writing for the internet. The separation from physical space or even saying words out loud makes it easier for people to ignore the cringe factor of what they’re doing. But you’re last four or five texts are proof that you are typing your true voice, lol. (12:23PM) I will definitely be putting that to use Ashok: (12:23PM) Yeah, I wouldn’t be capable of adopting some sort of invented persona if I wanted to, TBH. (12:26PM) Do you ever feel jealousy? Tim: (12:27PM) Oh, yeah. Definitely. I just really hate the feeling and process it like crazy until it fades away. Like, really search for the absurdity of the sensation. Ashok: (12:27PM) --
Iiiit’s cooooming… Tim: (12:28PM) Hahaha, oh no. Has this interview turned into a targeted ad? Ashok: (12:29PM) (I never do. When somebody makes something that I wish I did I’m objectively aware of the fact, but it never creeps into jealous territory, just a quick “FUCK”..as if I could have even made half the stuff…) (12:30PM) (The two exceptions: brilliant cats and clothes) (12:30PM) I hope CBD aficionados aren’t reading this. I’ll freak out. (12:31PM) I’m making my own CBD tincture in an effort to keep my weed highs mellow. (12:31PM) The ONLY thing that CBD MAYBE does… (12:31PM) Man, scam of the decade (12:32PM) My mom was telling me about CBD “for your depression” (12:33PM) The city intervened and poof, gone. Until Cuomo legalized weed to distract us from his sexual harassment. (12:33PM) I can’t believe weed was illegal 😂 (12:33PM) Weed! (12:34PM) You can go drink thirty beers and a shot seven nights a week! WTF (12:34PM) Are you a drinker or smoker? (12:34PM) You strike me as a sober person. (12:35PM) I’m going to guess that you’re an occasional beer haver and even more occasional joint hit-taker. (12:35PM) But an unrepentant cocaine fiend. (12:35PM) jkjk (12:36PM) I love that you’re tall. I love tall people. I always find myself trying to get tall people to laugh at my joke and like me in general. (12:36PM) And they make more money, statistically. (12:36PM) I wonder if Jesus was 6 foot+ (12:37PM) Back then, probably not. But maybe that’s how he got people to follow him around on shrooms all the time. (12:37PM) Easter is Jesus’s birthday or Christmas? (12:37PM) One of them is when he came back to life I think? Tim: (12:42PM) I’m more of a drinker than a smoker. I’m very specific about needing to know exactly what my day is going to be before getting high. I don’t need to go on any adventures. But, that’s very rare. And I think comedy is what really taught be how to drink. Getting paid if drink tickets, etc. There’s no way I would have spent as much time in bars as I have if it wasn’t for open mics/shows in Chicago. Also, yeah— Jesus’ birthday is Christmas and his resurrection is Easter. Imagine if they just named that third Matrix movie “Easter” Ashok: (12:43PM) Email Lana Wachowski. Tim: (12:43PM) I sold her a bagel once in Chicago Ashok: (12:43PM) man, those last 2 matrixes were kind of trash but I’ll still watch them when I catch them halfway thru on TV. (12:44PM) Whoa whoa, stop the presses, Barnes. (12:44PM) Was it an everything? Garlic? (12:44PM) vegan cream cheese I’m guessing. (12:44PM) Don’t tell me you forget, or so help me g-d.. (12:44PM) *forgot Tim: (12:46PM) I’m so sorry, but… I have indeed forgotten (12:46PM) I remember a lot of what I sold celebrities at a movie theater in Santa Barbara though (12:47PM) What I remember about the Lana situation though, was that none of my co-workers believed me when I exclaimed that she directed The Matrix. She was very nice. (12:48PM) I know nothing about your non-entertainment work resume (12:48PM) What have some of your jobs been? Ashok: (1:22PM) --
Grabbing a KOMBOOCH (1:25PM) children’s international flyer guy, cell phone accessory wholesaler, nail salon equipment factory servicing receptionist, some illegal stuff involving Columbia and Barnard students (I’ve been middle class since 8-9 years old, not tryna project an image of myself as anything but..atm.. 😂), ID check/security guy (1:25PM) What do they call cold call salesmen again? (1:25PM) Telemarketing. (1:26PM) I was the head of IT at Brooklyn Law School with a falsified resume, that was my last “straight” job (1:26PM) Plenty of others. (1:28PM) --
Been seeing these around, like the sentiment, as I understand it (1:42PM) Overdressed for this walk, it’s 62 (1:45PM) All my neighbors used to be friends or friends of friends, but they’ve all moved out as of last month and my landlord is a renovating this 130 year old building completely so he can charge market rates for the first time since she bought the building in 1983. My partner is working on her first book right now I miss the constant dean of hammering, sign, other tooling, etc. (1:49PM) Plus, my friend Costa opened a café (baby blue luncheonette- link? ) in the ground floor retail space beneath me. That, plus the Japanese coffee shop, Brooklyn ball factory, and the great clothing/event spot LQQK (insta link?) a few doors down, my specific section of the block has become the epicenter of the Montrose Ave gentrification/hippification. (1:50PM) What are the chances that that would happen literally beneath my feet? Not to be “that guy” but when I moved in the coffee shop was a storage depot for the liquor warehouse, a block away, it always stank of stale brew. (1:52PM) The warehouse was torn down to make way for a hideous condo. RIP ABC LIQUOR WAREHOUSE. My landlord has a hoodie with their old logo on it, I want it bad. You might even say I’m jealous AF re: dat damn hoodie.
Tim: (1:54PM)
Sorry about the delay. Just made a giant pot of ravioli and about to walk the dog (1:54:PM) A lot to take in now, lol (1:54:PM) So, wait— telemarketing was your one job? What was the birth of Das Racist? Ashok: (2:04PM) --
🤔 (2:07PM) I listed a handful of jobs up there.
(2:11PM) Brooklyn Law was amazing because I had to college students basically work under me, I had NO idea how to do the job, basically programming work involving the school servers proprietary backend (where students log in for schedules, grades etc) (2:11PM) One of them knew my band and helped me out a ton, the other was a total stickler for the rules type and clocked me as a phony right off the bat. (2:13PM) I don’t know why more people don’t just claim they graduated from a good school with a high GPA and worked at X Y Z. It’s not like I’m applying to be vice president of Citi Bank. (2:13PM) And half of those cunts probably falsify their shit too. (2:14PM) I worked for a Punjabi alcoholic i found through the help wanted section of India Abroad, the mediocre at best leading newspaper for the Indian diaspora in the US. (2:14PM) at least it was when I was a kid, hopefully there’s something better. (2:16PM)--
(2:16PM) Took a break to buy my preferred “meal” for weeks where I’m plugging away on work from jump. (2:16PM) a bunch of berries and banana and flax seeds and chia seeds and muesli in yogurt with honey. (2:17PM) Just jam the mush down, maybe some supplements here and there, and get back to work. (2:18PM) World’s worst plum however, out of season, my own fault. (2:24PM) A video game franchise is interested in Chillin Island for one of their in-game radio stations. (2:25PM) The examples of the game world current events they mentioned as examples were wildino 😂 😂 Tim: (2:35PM) That’s awesome about Chillin Island. How long has Chillin Island been going on? And also—congrats on the HBO Max show! It was great
Chillin Island, HBO
Ashok: (2:35PM) Our first residency was at EVR (east village radio) in 2009 and we became a regular weekly show in 2011. (2:36PM) Our first residency was at EVR (east village radio) in 2009 and we became a regular weekly show in 2011. (2:36PM) We didn’t have control over the production really at all, nor the edit, that coupled with the fact that HBO picked up the show so last minute that there was no time for a proper ad campaign, really sealed the deal on it, being a one season show at HBO. (2:37PM) (Dead that last comma!) (2:38PM) Nepotism in the twenty twenties, alive and well 😂 Tim: (2:40PM) The industry as a whole is insane right now. Getting it in the air on any level is a major accomplishment. (2:45PM) How was it working with the Chillin Island gang on the show? Beyond the weirdness with HBO, was it easy to develop how the show would work conceptually? Ashok: (2:47PM) We wanted to bring one of the core strengths of the radio show to the screen: our improvised banter with guests that’s rarely about the usual stuff - “what producer do you want to work with? What influenced this or that song?” (2:47PM) I’d rather know what their favorite fruits are, if they do drugs, what they think about cartoon porn, etc. (2:48PM) It’s often the same pattern: the first thirty mins the guest is confused why they’re not being centered in the chit chat or asked about their latest project. (2:49PM) Once they catch on it’s a blast and they’ll tell us during a later music break that this is the most fun they had doing “press” or radio/a podcast. (2:50PM) We’ve had maybe 2 guests ever who didn’t warm up to us, usually older rappers (2:50PM) Willie d from the Geto Boyz was a Notable clunker, homophobe to boot 😂 (2:56PM) How old are you, Tim? (2:56PM) You could be anywhere from 25 to 35. (2:56PM) My guess is 31 Tim: (2:58PM) Ha! I’m 34. Why do you ask? Ashok: (2:59PM) You have an ageless quality to your appearance. Tim: (3:06PM) That’s good to know. I often feel way older than I am. It’s very confusing now as the universe pours all its energy toward gen z instead of me and the millennials. Knowing the old internet dial up sound makes me feel ancient. How old are you? Ashok: (3:42PM) Turned 38 5 days ago. Feel 29 in terms of spirit and energy and interests and 90 in terms of.. everything else Tim: (4:34PM) Happy belated birthday! I’m awful about reaching out on birthdays. Social media has given me fatigue about it. I saw that Facebook has an auto-happy birthday feature where all you have to do is press one button for the words “happy birthday” to appear on a person’s wall from your account. Do you have any anxiety around 40? Ashok: (4:52PM) None, don’t care about age and am somewhat looking forward to being an old man and not being expected to achieve anything or be successful anymore. (4:52PM) I’m racing towards ad-hoc retirement fr fr (4:53PM) I’ll sell all my clothes and use the proceeds to commission 7 designers to make 7 jumpsuits l, one for each day of the week. (4:53PM) And 2 formal ones in black and white for weddings and funerals. (4:53PM) I can tell what day of the week it is in any photo I am based on the color jumpsuit I am wearing.(4:54PM) And I won’t have to waste time putting together outfits and other superficial shit like that anymore. Tim: (5:04PM) Have you always felt this way about age? Ashok: (5:14PM) I was in a rush to be an adult in high school and do whatever I wanted all the time on some youth is wasted on the young shit. (5:16PM) But yeah, never put any significance into age. Probably because I don’t have any physical ailments and rarely ever get sick, so there’s not many situations where I’m forced to consider physical limitations. Tim: (5:18PM) How are you liking the uncle life? Ashok: (6:05PM) It’s great, all the fun stuff, none of the handling of feces. (6:07PM) It’s a strange feeling sometimes, Arjun’s birth seemed to herald the end of my prolonged adolescence. Like, oh yeah, you’re almost 40, old news, time to get it together for the younguns in your life. (6:08PM) Me and my partner (not my favorite word, looking for alternatives) are waiting till he’s 4-5 to start actively brainwashing him. We’re very excited. (6:09PM) It’s a cliche but getting to be a “cool uncle” is great. I wish I had a cool uncle when I was growing up to have let me know what’s what. (6:10PM) My goal is to have my apartment be a safe space for him and his friends/whatever to hang out in after high school. Hopefully I can glom his friend group in as non-creepy a way as possible. 🤷♀️ Tim: (6:22PM) That’s awesome. You definitely have cool uncle energy. And you have eyes in every bodega watching over him. Has this strengthened your relationship with Hari? Ashok: (6:23PM) We spend more time together because the baby has changed the nature of the family, but I would say no, we’re like we were before with the addition of a wonderful baybee and my brother’s partner (that word, again) Tim: (6:26PM) Yeah, words! I’ve been trying to find a word for fiancé that isn’t fiancé lately Ashok: (6:29PM) The only word that’s worse 😂 (6:29PM) I doubt there’ll be a single word for that other than the FRANCAIS (6:29PM) Betrothed? (6:29PM) Imagine.. (6:30PM) I’d have to block you and shit. Tim: (6:30PM) Hahaha (6:32PM) By the way—do you prefer haha’s spelled out, or laughing emoji, or the “haha” button? Ashok: (8:36PM) Sorry, getting ready to see Peter Smith at Joe's pub tonight.
(8:36PM) I was a strict hahaha guy, deapised lol'ers even. (8:36PM) Then maybe 6-7 years ago lol slipped in. (8:37PM) And without even noticing , this guy 😂 started taking over everything. [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (8:37PM) LIFE'S LIKE DAT (9:10PM)--
(9:17PM) —-
Tim: (9:33PM) Well, hopefully the music makes you feel again.
DAY 2 (Tuesday 04-11-2023)
Tim: (10:10AM) How was the show? Ashok: (10:39AM) It was great, definitely work in progress, they had a notebook on a music stand (i think?) on stage. Interactive audience polling, singing, joking. (10:40AM) The songs really hit the spot, waddavoice.
(10:41AM) Headed to Ditmas Park to check out some cribs that have a crazy low interest mortgage through some First Republic Bank program with the city or some shit aowno. (10:41AM) But ANOTHER dude said that program was deaded 3 weeks ago from SVB collapse fallout 🤷♀️ (10:42AM) Way too much bullshit to wade through, no wonder this generation is on some rent till you die. Also, prohibitively expensive and overpopulated and foreign oligarchs buying investment real estate that goes unoccupied. Thanks a lot Boomer cunt trash! (10:44AM) (It’s going green, you getting these?) Tim: (10:50AM) Woah! Well, Ditmas Park is my neck of the woods these days. Maybe if there’s time we can meet up and you can meet my dog, Spock (10:52AM) I’ve never considered the warmup stage of musicians performing new music. Having notes on stage, etc. do you agree with the theory that most standups sort of wish they were musicians and vice versa? Ashok: (11:44AM) That’s a theory? Standups are often so dorky, uncool/poorly dressed, and seemingly bad at sublimating their ego for the sake of bandmate and the music. (11:16AM) Though standups have gotten remarkably cooler the last several years, I think because of the inclusivity and the diversity of forms that are classified as standup these days that maybe would be considered “theater” stuff/one person plays years back (11:16AM) MEAN, haha. (11:17AM) This is not to say I’m NOT a huge dorky loser. Tim: (11:17AM) Haha, maybe not a theory theory. I think Marc Maron or Conan have said something like that in one of there podcasts. Comedy podcasts about comedy tend to blend into a gumbo of nonsense after a while Ashok: (11:17AM) Also you’re excluded Tim, you giant beautiful cherub. [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (11:18AM) Haha, classic comedian, some shit another comedian says is a “theory” (11:18AM) More than fair. (11:18AM) --
Tim: (11:27AM) Good small talk with the driver? Ashok: (11:33AM) He loves the weeknd Tim: (12:46PM) What are the key elements of a good home to you? Ashok: (1:23PM) Beats me, I’m mostly listening to my partner. I need some light and fairly high ceilings. (1:23PM) I’ve lived in a railroad for 13 years, no doors. I live in a hallway so anything is a step up. (1:23PM) The third crib we just looked at was fire. Plus tax abatement till 203, Barnes! (1:23PM) 2035!! The world will be on fire, everybody will be drowning. It’s gonna be something else!! Tim: (1:50PM) I mentioned yesterday that you seem to embrace the moment. But, do you think about the future often? Ashok: (1:52PM) Of course, we’re living in a terrifying “end of days” times. Tim: (1:54PM) It does seem like things have escalated drastically in the last decade. Five years, even. Ashok: (1:55PM) I want to crank out some quality art that satisfies my own internal standards and be a “good" person who repays whatever “debt to society” I feel I have before I kick the old bucketo. (1:57PM) It’s funny that I come across like that because I’m very much in my head running through to-do lists and battling intrusive thoughts that recur throughout the day. (1:59PM) Yeah, trump —> COVID (2:00PM) I was almost bummed out when the vaccine came out and things began to power up again, I was so agoraphobic and out of sorts by then. (2:01PM) I just started feeling "post-pandemic" a few months ago Tim: (2:07PM) Same here! I’m oddly nostalgic for the general “same page” we were all on for the most part when lockdown started. Part of things opening up again is this awkward negation with how everyone is dealing with reality. There’s a naive nature to “everything is back to normal” and the what could become really unhealthy fear on the other end. Was there a key to your “post pandemic” feeling? (3:47PM) Also, I wonder if some element of my considering you an “in the moment” guy comes from comparing you to your brother in the Kondabolu Brothers podcast days. People tend to exaggerate what makes members of a duo different from each other. Do you think you and Hari exaggerate elements of yourselves on stage? And, do you often get the sense that people only have a surface impression of you? Ashok: (4:30PM) I just got fed up being a recluse and racking up bad memories. A month felt like a day, wasn’t doing any work, holing up with the TV and blowing off all social obligations. (4:30PM) Started feeling physically creaky also, I’ve always been able to count on a ROBUST PHYSICALITY. (4:32PM) Oh, we absolutely play to type. My brother’s the thoughtful, educated, sensitive nerd guy and I’m the brash worldly fool/charlatan. (4:33PM) We’re definitely not playing characters up there, just emphasizing our different worldviews and modes of communication for “comedic effect” (4:34PM) It gets real up there, we’ve definitely learned a lot about each other on-stage, mostly through revealing secrets and telling tales from our pasts for the first time. (4:36PM) I feel most audiences and people who encounter me through past work don’t know anything about me beyond little glimpses, it’s my own fault. (4:37PM) I haven’t been able to create work that presents any coherent worldview or relates any of my experiences or true personality yet. (4:38PM) I stumbled into being an “entertainer”/showbiz really with the band. And I liked the hours and general freedom so I stayed. (4:39PM) My only real goals are to take a good crack at a sketch show with an ensemble of friends/people I admire and to do a variety show. (4:40PM) That’s all the front of camera stuff I’d like to do before I’m senile, everything else that has happened and will is a bonus. (4:41PM) The work won’t save you is an expression I like, when I was a teenager I thought getting to be creative and surrounding myself with art and interesting people would wholly satisfy me. (4:42PM) But the way one has to commodify themselves if they want to do work that’s personal is pretty gross and disheartening. (4:43PM) One thing about the pandemic is it brought me so low that I let go of a lot of ambition and ego and especially expectations I had, things I thought would bring me happiness. (4:44PM) I’m on some “just happy to be here” paying my rent, having a couple friends and a family and a partner is pretty good. (4:47PM) It’s not normal to expect to have multiple tv shows, let alone one. Part of that is growing up in the city, I guess. Also having peers who are mega successful can warp your sense of reality FA SHO SHO. (4:47PM) I’m a mildly talented, nice guy, I’ll take what I can get at this point!(4:48PM) My real dream is to run a commie cafe with South Indian food and my tea/tisane concoctions for reasonable prices, and at night lectures and workshops and parties and viewings and stuff. (4:49PM) Hanging out IRL beats sitting behind a computer for me. (5:28PM)--
(5:28PM) Like an eighth of my girlfriends old “files” and cassettes and crap that’ll certainly not be removed from these bags until after she dies MAYBE (5:29PM) I have no sentimentality towards material objects (5:29PM) I like some of my clothes but my days of tchotchke hoarding is long gone. Kill ‘em all. Tim: (5:50PM) Well, you’re incredibly talented (though, I must admit it is tough to narrow you down to one thing). I hope you get to do more voice acting. You have a unique thing going on. When I was making my cartoon I wanted to have you voice the “cool hipster on Mars” character even as I was writing it. Just looking at your YouTube, it seems like you’ve always had an interest in media. Not just being in stuff, but the presentation of ideas. How are you processing the way TV is evolving these days? Ashok: (6:22PM)--
(6:22PM) B48 to Crown Heights, bout to join the riots (6:22PM) Love my Jewish brethren but I’m gonna have to side with the blacks on this one. Tim: (6:27PM) Oh, damn. I’m not aware of what happened there Ashok: (6:55PM) Crown Heights riots in the early 90s? Hasidic ambulance hit and killed a black child and there was a retaliatory killing and then riots. (6:58PM) Widespread rumor at the time was dinkins had to hold a press conference to tell “the black community” that tropical fantasy a) doesn’t make you sterile b) wasn’t owned by the klan. (6:59PM) 50 cent sodas in the hood they goin crazy -ghostface (6:59PM) I’m old 😢 Tim: (7:06PM) Ha! Yes, I’m aware of the 90s riot. Thought maybe something happened today. You had me frantically googling, like “wow, they’re really keeping this riot under wraps.” Ultimately a sign of how bad I’ve gotten at catching jokes (8:32PM) Do you have any thoughts on Joan Didion? Watching a documentary about her right now Ashok: (8:52PM) Strongly considered pretending I’m more familiar with her shit but why?! (8:53PM) My girlfriend is walking with me now, let’s she what she says: (8:54PM)--
[Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (8:54PM) There you have it. NGL I like my old white women cold and distant. (8:55PM) “She was also skinny. That was a whole thing. Men loved that.” (8:57PM) “Oh, she wrote a really good, shady profile of Nancy Reagan when Ronald Reagan was the governor of California. Shady, very shady.” Tim: (9:18PM) Glad you decided not to pretend. What do you do once you own Joan’s Didion’s glasses? The doc gets depressing as hell, by the way Ashok: (10:42PM) third consecutive weed freak out in a row (10:43PM) sometimes it’s fun being paranoid on weed when yr kinda bored, but I’m in a “keep it moving” phase and that energy stinks right now. (10:45PM) (I was gonna make a joke along the lines of “you put it in the safe with” and then 2 examples akin to the glasses like Gloria Steinems bell bottoms and Simone debeauvoir’s paisley dildo”) (10:51PM) Gonna list shit to sell on eBay, dat’ll do it
DAY 3 (Wednesday 04-12-2023)
Tim:
(9:01AM) Just saw this tweet. Bad at math but seems like you posted it close to when you sent those last texts. What inspired this work of art? And has your relationship with weed changed over the years?https://twitter.com/dapwell/status/1645995713845657601?s=20
Ashok: (10:20AM) It’s a piece of crap from my early twenties, i can’t remember what sparked the idea, it’s possible the room I was in had a sega genesis and some sort of Batman related merchandise in it. (10:21AM) And what’s less appropriate in a corporate mascot context than the word CUM really big? Lots of stuff, but it’s still lol. (10:23AM) First day catching a proper 8! Roughly 1-9, a brief wake up to piss at 3ish and at 7:15 Julianne’s alarm went off and she dropped a computer. That one took a look extra to pass out again after. Tim: (10:43AM) Is there a typical routine you follow each day? Ashok: (10:46AM) it varies but everything is preplanned in a google doc that has several days of schedule in advance and long term plans. (10:46AM) --
(10:47AM) I definitely have some sort of obsessive disorder, me and J call it OCD but I don’t think it’s that. Tim: (10:48AM) That’s incredible. I should do something like that. Amazing how something like Google Docs has changed the way we organize our lives. Do you strike things out once they’re accomplished? Ashok: (11:18AM) Yeah, erase em. It’s more about maintaining and updating and consulting the list than actual accomplishment, that’s the problem. (11:19AM) Or else I’d be at a wild different station in life 😂 (11:23AM) --
Note: Image censored in post.
(11:24AM) Found this on the street years ago and carry it around. Finding this particular ID deep on Flatbush Avenue hurt my heart 😂 Tim: (12:07PM) Why do you carry it around? --> ASHOK DIRECTLY RESPONDS TO THIS TEXT LATER @ 7:40PM SAYING: "I like to briefly imagine what she might be doing now in DuBuque: driving home from work? watching love is blind with her husband? (she looks funny is the real answer)" Ashok: (12:49PM) --
(12:49PM) Permit expired 3rd time. (12:50PM) I’m maybe never getting a license. FUCKITTTTT— Tim: (1:06PM) The Joan Didion doc got me thinking about your writing again. You write poetry, right? Ashok: (1:07PM) I used to. I really enjoy writing it, not reading it so much, outside of a few authors I’ve discovered so far. (1:08PM) I was contacted by a few publishing houses about a book. (1:11PM) I thought they liked the poetry itself but they were just interested in the potential marketability of a minor internet figure and the celebrity blurbs I might get. (1:12PM) One dude said American poetry operates at a loss financially. (1:13PM) They just want to keep the art form existent 😂 (1:13PM) Note sure if that’s true but it was funny. Not one person mentioned my actual writing. (1:14PM) Quickly decided I would regret whatever book I put out ten years down the line with the 100-120 poems I had at the time. Plus, I was brokeish. Tim: (1:18PM) Where does the spark of inspiration come from? Does it take a lot of time for a poem to feel fully formed? Ashok: (1:32PM) my only criterion is amusing myself and hopefully utilizing some clever or novel (to me) wordplay. (1:33PM) Someone once said, somewhat disparagingly, that my poetry is the perfect example of the form for an intro college class 😂 [Tim gives this an iPhone "haha"] (1:33PM) I’ll take it! (1:33PM) Did you go to college? Tim: (1:38PM) I took two years of city college, but I never really understood how it all worked. I had not mental/emotional attachment to the grades or degrees. It was all with a focus on film anyway, and it was just as technology started making it easier to just make stuff on your own. Navigating comedy was the closest thing to the excitement people might get out of college (if they do at all) [Ashok gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (1:39PM) All of that to say that I just sort of fizzled out of it, moved back home with my parents for a bit, and then darted to Chicago to pursue my “dreams!” [Ashok gives this an iPhone "❤️"](1:40PM) You’re good at turning the questions back in my direction (1:40PM) Did you go to college? You may have mentioned this the other day, and I forgot Ashok: (2:16PM) I went to UMass Amherst to get a sociology degree and o think take a class with Gayatri Spivak who maybe taught there then but I left 3 weeks in counting orientation time, got 2/3 tuition refund and took a greyhound back home. (2:17PM) Stayed at my friend dash’s place in boerum hill for a few days before telling my parents. (2:17PM) I wasn’t ready discipline wise and also didn’t understand how to navigate the weird summer camp/manufactured environment. (2:18PM) I’ve been wanting to go to CCNY the last dozen years for various things but to pause life for a few years seems a bit much now. (2:19PM) A few times when I was on the real periphery of showbiz I was close to just giving up. Maybe I should have but I didn’t, time will tellllll. (3:18PM) --
(3:18PM) Mike Chen 217 Grand, watch repair king Tim: (3:38PM) --
(3:38PM) I’m just learning of Gayatri Spivak. This portion of her Wikipedia stands out to me as a through-line in you and your brother’s work. How do you grapple with something as devious as intellectual colonialism? It seems like something you’re constantly analyzing day-to-day. Ashok: (3:49PM) I think we all are these days. It’s a huge part of the discourse, pushing back on the narrative of the moneyed global elite, crazy white right-wing greedhead wackos and corporate interests. (3:51PM) The alternative is “playing the game” —I don’t think my parents sacrificed their lives basically accumulating wealth/security for their family unit (in lieu of having full lives of their own) so I could become a dumb American asshole. Not that they think in those terms at all. (3:52PM) They’d actually be thrilled if I was in finance actually. I just wanted to project a noble image of them for my own purposes 😂 (3:53PM) KILL YT, that’s all I’m saying. (3:55PM) Academic writing is usually too dense for me, find it mostly impenetrable, rereading shit like 5 times. But I think I get the broader concepts and I certainly understand the importance of that work and the threat of erasure. Tim: (3:57PM) You’re in the perfect city for processing the globalized world. Do you ever run through hypotheticals? What if I grew up here instead of here…, etc.? Ashok: (6:04PM) As much as I can, I haven’t spent more than a few weeks in any place but New York so my fantasies are pretty surface level as far as that goes. (6:05PM) When I was a little kid I was obsessed with Sierra computer games. These really dorky games like King’s Quest and Quest for Glory (lot of questing) and the infamous Leisure Suit Larry. (6:06PM) They were like beautifully hand drawn cel animation games my first best friend introduced me to. They took place in like a game of thrones like fake medieval environment (except for the last 4 Quest for Glories but anyway..) and I was obsessed with walking through the forests and woods of these games. (6:07PM) I had this incredible hallowed fascination around nature and bodies of water and especially forests although I’d never seen these things IRL. (6:09PM) Every year that Friend would go to the Adirondacks in the summer, wear their family rented, or owed a cabin by a lake. And every year I ask my parents if I could go and they said no. They came from rural environments in South India and didn’t understand why one of their children would want to “go backwards” or something.[Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] --> ASHOK DIRECTLY RESPONDS TO THIS TEXT LATER @ 6:15PM SAYING: "(Voice to Text, I’m through correcting, it is what it is!)" (6:09PM) Eventually that fascination withered as my hormones kicked in and by the time I started going to high school downtown, it was a wrap, I was corrupted out. (6:11PM) Reading the oral history “Please Kill Me” at 14 marks the end of my innocence in my own little self-narrative/mythology. And I became obsessed with the nitty gritty city. (6:12PM) I think if I cultivated that appreciation of nature I might have felt like there was something beyond cities and suburbs. (6:13PM) Somewhere in my mid-20s the yearning came back in the form of a fantasy me and my close friends refer to as “6 STRONG DOGS” (6:14PM) basically “retiring” to a cabin in the woods asap, surrounded by beauty and animals: a hawk, domesticated livestock, wild and tame horses, and of course, SIX. STRONG. DOGS. (6:14PM) and that fantasy keeps me afloat when I feel trapped in my life, circumstantially and geographically. (6:17PM) Meeting extremely rich kids and going to their duplex penthouses in Manhattan to party when yr a teen warps yr ideas of success fa sho sho. Once you’ve seen like, a Picasso hanging in a basement bathroom, yr fucked. (6:26PM) (Not in terms of wanting to be rich, never was a greedhead, but seeing how demons live and hoard and what they value) (6:27PM) “YUUUGH” —Pusha Tim: (6:31PM) That Adirondacks thing with your parents is very funny. Do you think they understand you? Ashok: (6:39PM) My father doesn’t understand my thoughts or feelings about things at all but through years of observation he’s figured out my day to day habits and preferences, mostly in terms of food and drink. Tim: (6:40PM) Not gonna lie. That’s a great opening to a novel Ashok: (6:42PM) My mother definitely has a pretty good idea, we have a good rapport, we’re buddies. Obviously there’s a lot I don’t talk about and also things we can’t understand about each other because, you know, she’s a 70 year old woman from semi-rural south India who’s life in the US was largely confined to child rearing, working at a hospital, and running a household. Tim: (6:44PM) You’ve posted quite a bit about growing up in a matriarchal household. How did that play out in your family? Ashok: (6:45PM) Oh, that’s a half-joke about me and my girlfriend. (6:46PM) Growing up my mom was the parent we spoke to directly about whatever, practical stuff, problems, and my dad was the guy who drove us around sometimes. (6:48PM) The 2nd thing I wont talk about publicly until I’m older but with me and J, I love it, she’s the main decision maker, the primary kibosher, and the principal chooser (6:50PM) I also enjoy running the day to day food procurement and cleaning, etc. while working from home mostly and she pre-pandemic went to work in an office in the mornings and I’d wait for her to come home so we could hang out. I guess that’s what I meant. (6:51PM) Mostly it projects an image of me as a feminist is why I tweet that all the time TBQH 😂 Tim: (6:57PM) We touched on this earlier, but it is frightening how easy it is to project a certain image of yourself online. I’m gonna have to mute my phone for a few hours because I’m recording a podcast (it’s a bout Star Wars—what a loser) but if you’re still up to answering questions after it’ll be the final portion of our interview! This has been a wild ride. I’ve been easing out of a funk because of a project I created entering entertainment limbo and this has been a great, weird distraction. Ashok: (7:15PM) hahaha I’m glad it’s been fun, I feel sort of like I’m harassing you with paragraphs of self indulgent nonsense. Because I have! (7:18PM) What a blast though. (7:18PM) Yeah hit me when yr back and let’s pick up with that question. Tim: (9:21PM) Okay, I’m back in action! Feeling good about your google doc to do list today? Ashok: (9:22PM) Yeah, nailed it today. Got to: put away clothes, list 3 things on eBay and do crunches haha.