An [EMAIL] Conversation With Writer C. Elyse

Family, Fiction, Secrets, Magical Realism, Parenting, Love, & Generational Divides

A [BLANK] Conversation With… is an interview series where guests engage in a three-day conversation via their preferred mode of text-based communication, with no commitments to the length or frequency of their responses.

I recently collaborated on a post with writer

C. Elyse

for her thoughtful and thought provoking newsletter A Sip, A Shout Out, and a Sentence. It’s one of the first newsletters in this sprawling new landscape of writers that has made me re-think what makes a quality, frequent update.

In addition to the newsletter, C. Elyse is writer of prose poetry, short stories and novellas in the chick lit and magical realism genres…

Excerpt From Not… Just… Yet… by

C. Elyse

:

The view was spectacular, panoramic, and in technicolor.

The seascape matched my mood and varied from aqua to indigo blue. The waves lovingly lulled me to sleep.

I dreamed dreams peppered with somatic events. Each event was progressively more difficult to distinguish, yet somehow removed doubts regarding the existence or circumference of Maya’s wheel.

I floated above my physical body and watched from what must have been the astral plane.

Her 2022 novella Lilies Bloom Lies Fester has a sharp focus family and secrets. And in our email exchange, I learned just how important family is to her while also exploring her not-so-secret secret that C. Elyse is a pen name. In fact, the image above representing C. Elyse isn’t necessarily a real person at all.

What causes someone to use a pen name? What are the pros and cons of exploring family in your fiction? We explored this and dabbled through many vagaries to reach very specific areas of truth — all while using this newsletter’s title as an anchor.

It’s as if “C. Elyse” and I drove from opposite coasts of “African America” and met in the middle to chat for three days.

Enjoy!

TABLE OF CONVERSATION:

• DAY 1 (Tuesday 11-14-2023)

  • Duality, Newsletter Writing, & Family vs Fiction

• Day 2 (Wednesday 11-15-2023)

  • Generational Divides, Parenting, & Sci-Fi

• Day 3 (Thursday 11-16-2023)

  • Empty Nests, Love, & Peers

  

---

Note: Since Tim is based in New York, each email is timestamped in Eastern Standard Time. Also, for some reason you cannot underline words on substack, so I will explain which words were underlined in brackets.

DAY 1 (Tuesday 11-14-2023)

Tim Barnes:
(11:24AM)
Subject Line: Welcome To The Interview!

Hi C. Elyse!

Thanks again for bringing me on board to collaborate on this recent post for your newsletter! The simple task of compiling some of my favorite quotes from The Intuitionist made me dissect why I love Colson Whitehead's work in a whole new way.

I'm excited for this interview because 1) It's the first one conducted via email, and 2) You seem truly mysterious!

So, let's start with a classic question: Where are you from?

C. Elyse:
(11:52AM) Hi Tim!

Happy day today!  I hope you are well, and I am excited too - just because, but if you need a specific reason for my excitement, it's because this is my first time being interviewed by a professional writer. 

Mysterious... 🙂 not really, maybe an introvert.

That is a classic question.  And, the classic answer is I was born and raised in what is now a poverty-stricken community that continues to suffer from the loss of heavy industry and restructuring of railroads.

Tim:
(12:53PM) “Professional” is still a hard crown for me to accept. But it’s pretty cool having a resume that backs up the claim. If anyone is more professional between the two of us it’s YOU! You have an excellent command of words and between our newsletters, I’m sure you’ve published far fewer spelling errors.

What made you launch your two newsletters? Reading A Sip, A Shout Out, & A Sentence helped me appreciate newsletter writing as a true craft. It’s informative but also has a clear voice and mood. Does your introverted nature help you inject so much personality into the written word?

C. Elyse:
(2:29PM) LOL - my big sister would call me protracted, and she would because she was a medical professional (doctors have poor penmanship for a reason).  

A Sip, A Shout Out is the older of the two; it was officially launched a little over a year and a half ago under a different name and using a very rudimentary sign-up and delivery system: email.  It was launched after I was asked to guest-host a write-in and several of the participants asked for additional detail on the author Author (Audre Lorde), Artist (Jean-Micheal Basquiat), for the title of one of the books I had ripped the prompts from (Love, Anger, Madness by Marie Vieux-Chauvet), and for copies of the playlist that I used (that, I honestly do not remember because I listen to a lot of different types of music). It had a small readership, but no engagement -and one day a few months ago, a friend mentioned I migrated it to Substack because I wanted to see if it was interesting to anyone other than myself and the small group of people who had been receiving it.  

The other, Magical One Shot, was launched because both of my older Brothers are impatient and apparently I don't submit or get published in a time frame that aligns with their established liking -or at least that is how they make me feel because they have yet to accept that its 2023, and no longer 1965 (the year I was born). In short, it was launched because they both suggested that it would be nice if I started posting more stories that they can read at their leisure.   And, yes there is a margin of truth to the former; all my siblings are significantly older. The oldest three were young adults when I was born, thus we didn't grow up together and because we didn't, they know very little about me other than I am their youngest sister (whom they somehow believe is still a small child).

Tim:
(2:43PM) A similar impulse led me to posting short stories over at Alternate Timeline (my sci-fi focused newsletter). Mainly because I felt the need to open mic my prose skills. I'm confident in my ability to write and tell jokes on stage -- even to write a compelling script, but narrative stories with quotes and paragraphs and tenses and internal thoughts mixed with external actions is a whole other ballgame.

It's great that you have such thoughtful siblings, despite their seeming inability to really see you. For me, standup was a way to have a "definitive say" and feel heard, coming from a big extended family where no matter what I'd say, people only really heard what they'd prefer I'd said instead. Were you ever nervous about letting your family into the worlds you create on paper?

C. Elyse:
(3:08PM) You have that correct re: folks hearing what they wish to listen to, and/or dolling out what is dressed up as advice, but isn't. 

That is an interesting question because being the youngest is a lot harder than people realize (especially in the Black community, there is a level of expectation that gets overlooked in favor of the BS about the youngest getting everything, being spoiled, never having to pull their share of the work, etc. (which in my family was always a fallacy)). It is also interesting because my older (not oldest) sister always knew that I wrote creatively, and suggested years ago that I should extend it beyond a hobby (which, in thinking about this, made her my first beta reader, and first fan (and that is likely why I always give her a subtle nod in everything that I write)).  

I'm never really nervous about it, but there are things that I write and have written that I don't share with all my siblings. For instance, when I write chick literature they assume the male characters are modeled after them - and as their youngest sister, I have no clear and convincing evidence that I've done so and continue to assert that I must be extremely observant.  On the other hand, there are things that I have written that have been so heavily influenced by events or people that I'll ask them to read it, and then ask if they remember the event or person the same way I've written it.   Not so much for approval, but because again as the youngest, my recollection of people and events is in some instances overly colorful, and in others extremely clouded!

Tim:
(3:31PM) The way you describe your family reminds me a bit of my father's. He's the second youngest of eight siblings. There's an unchangeable closeness that comes from growing up in a household like that, even when they're at odds with each other. And it's amazing to watch as I grow older and get a clearer sense of how their various ages and ranks interact. It always, without fail, feels like I'm witnessing a Greek drama whenever all of the siblings gather together, lol.

I apologize for having not read your novella Lilies Bloom Lies Fester  -- but the description suggests that it's exactly about that sort of thing. And I'm intrigued by your one sentence "About The Author" description, which reads:  "C. Elyse is the pen name of a career paralegal by day, and author of short stories, prose poetry, and contemporary chick literature by night."

Do you enjoy this duality? Is your goal to become an author of short stories, prose poetry, and contemporary chick literature 24/7? 

C. Elyse:
(4:19PM) No need to apologize, and because you haven't please allow me to send you a copy -and- know that I am prepared to answer for any and all subtle and overt inferences and implications throughout, but I will not be held accountable!  😂  I had no idea you have written as extensively as you have until I took my nosey butt onto your website.  Hard to believe that being a professional writer gives you any level of imposter syndrome, but I do not doubt it -- there are times (especially at work) when my alter ego screams, "GET IT, girl" and I strut like I am channeling Naomi Campbell.

LOL,  that is a trick question -much akin to being at a cocktail party standing next to your boss with someone walking up and asking, "How do you like your boss?" and expecting a reply.  Nonetheless, I honestly enjoy the duality.  I also find it intoxicating and that is because there is no malice attached to or associated with it.  I work in a male dominated industry, in a role where my job is to make sure someone is successful - and that always involves being able to strategically prove a point (regardless of whether the point is accurate) with contention.  Its expected, its stressful, and I also happen to be very good at it. But, because its stressful (and its never acceptable to completely loose your shit)- I write for catharsis. 

I would love to ghost-write, and that said, I may be tooting my own horn far too loudly, but I think with a bit more craft-centric education, I have potential to be a very successful ghost writer. Why ghost writing? Technically. I already do - C. Elyse is an alter ego.  

Tim:
(5:33PM) Oh yeah the imposter syndrome is very real in these streets right now!!

And you really are into this secret identity thing! The urge to ghost write actually comes in handy for people who want to get into television. For late night, you’re serving the voice of the host. And for narrative you’re serving the voice of the showrunner. In both, you never get credit for exactly what you wrote. 

You’ve mentioned “chick lit” a few times. What draws you to that genre. And is there a difference between general “chick lit” and “Black chick lit” as bookstore sections of a certain era would suggest?

C. Elyse:
(6:15PM) 😂 According to guys, all women have multiple personalities (in our defense, having a work personality is imperative and a career booster), and because we happen to live in African America 🙃 you are correct, I relish my secret identity; flying under the radar serves a Sista well!  With re: ghostwriting and being the voice of a late-night television host... isn't that what you do or part of what you do?  Do you have discretion? Can you say, "Oh hell no, not him?"  And with re: getting the credit due, part of what a Paralegal does is train 1st and 2nd year attorney-staff, and write a boatload of documents that you never put your name on - sounds a lot like ghostwriting, doesn't it?

You posted an article a few weeks ago titled something like You Are Your Genre - and every workshop presented starts with "write what you know" - I am a chick, an introvert who is overly in tune with her emotions, and thus I am drawn to that genre. Well... I think Black chick lit is expressly written from the perspective of, and to appeal to Black girls and women because it centers around independent, uninhibited women.

DAY 2 (Wednesday 11-15-2023)

Tim:
(7:48PM) Welcome to day 2!

Yes! An important part of late-night writing is channeling everything into the voice of the host and that can be a challenging thing for some writers. Then, in the narrative TV world you often get credited as the writer of an episode that you've barely touched but you have to be humble and just accept that delicious residual money. Ultimately it makes you focus on the collective work of making a great show.

On the topic of secret identities -- when I started doing comedy in Chicago, my favorite part about it was that there were these comedic giants at night who had odd jobs (and were often struggling) during the day but I was so immersed in the night life of comedy that the day life was the true oddity.

I love this sense of excitement you have about writing and showcasing the world of literature to others. And there's something great about you saying "Yeah! I like reading and writing chick lit!"

It feels like a term that's meant to talk down to the genre yet you've radically accepted it.

Yesterday you referred to writing as your catharsis. What are the specifics of that satisfaction for you? What's the catharsis of a newsletter update as opposed to a complete short story?

C. Elyse:
(10:05PM) Remember yesterday when you said "The struggle is "real" in reference to imposter syndrome? Allow me to step off the ledge and boldly state, in African America the oddity is also. 

You are correct, the term itself is subtle yet derogatory; chicks are fluffy and cute, but they are also naive, easily led astray, and make a lot of noise.   
I read extensively; I always have, I had five older siblings and because I am being allowed to speak my truth, each was impatient and had a very bad habit of implying that they wanted to spend quality time with me when all they really did was give me a book, and tell me to read it.  Reading is a form of escapism and again you are correct, I Iike to read and write chick lit, but I love to read and write magical realism!

Writing is cathartic because the struggle is real, and because the struggle has a tendency to dress its raggedy and cheap ass in various so-called designer labels (e.g., microaggression) the detriment in writing what one wishes to say is less severe than actually saying what needs to be said.  That is, my creditors do not give two flips about the jerk who acts [<-- "acts" is underlined] as if his entire world is ruined because the corner coffee shop did not have non-fat whipped cream, and in turn, has assumed the duty of tilting the axis on my work day. My creditors also do not give a flip about the emotional, psychological or physical toll associated with being forced to deal with unprovoked imbecilic and/or acidic behavior over extended periods of time. In African America we are taught to pray our concerns away... yeah, well it is still a global pandemic, God is busy and there is immediate satisfaction in writing a short story with a jerk who confuses ignorance with arrogance.  The newsletter update is all about being accountable... mainly to me (youngest kid syndrome at its finest) after all I started it, it is my newsletter (despite the fact that it's written using an alias), my name is on it.... it is my individual failure if it fails... 

Tim:
(12:22PM) What you wrote above is the first email that has ever given me the urge to snap my fingers. I'm curious--what does African America mean to you? I'm close to the term because it was the heart of one of my earliest jokes.

In my first post on this newsletter, I tried defining it this way:
"African America” might not be a physical location, but it is real. It’s a quagmire made out of the the same social DNA that turns being alive and Black at the same time into a political act. It’s also silly. African America exists simply because I do. And this is my way of giving you a passport.

Thinking about generational divides among siblings, I imagine you've witnessed the clash of many versions of African America in the household you grew up in. And, if you can define African America, how do you feel about the current state of the nation?

C. Elyse:
(1:30PM) African America is the tangible, fluid, uniquely identifiable, influential, rebellious and independent expression of what the Ancestors desired -and because they did, we exist and shouldn't be negatively impacted or otherwise targeted.  

I would not define it as clashes in versions of African America, however, I agree -there is an advantage to being what was once labeled "a change in life baby" and having survived being raised in a multi-generational household -one learns early to widen perspective. 

As a Black woman with a valid US passport and a voting right, I am well aware that by virtue of my race and gender, I belong to one of the strongest voting bloc's (and yes, its voting bloc, not voting block) on this planet. In short, I feel it is time for each and all concerned to stop counting on my voting bloc, and to start earning our votes. And, I give myself snaps for that.

Tim:
(2:54PM) I've been diving into the meaning of magical realism because of this conversation. It dawned on me that it's a pretty great way of describing the Black experience and the art that spawns out of it. It says a lot that Blackness is often described as an experience -- and in it there is unique combination of realism (as in keeping it real) and magic (often religious faith). In the realm of comedy, Black (African/African American) humor tends to be all about cutting down the fantastical nature of the white world and pointing at the reality underneath it but at the same time there are magical leaps into character and the personification of objects, etc.

What is your relationship with faith? And how did you discover magical realism?

C. Elyse:
(3:55PM) Some describe magical realism as a genre of Science Fiction -which you write.  We make it magical because our reality is often unnecessarily harsh and cruel, perhaps that has a lot to do with it only being allegorical because it is history, not the story (shout out to Tim Barns and C. Eylse for their bomb collaboration). 

I just blasted my oldest sister because she had the audacity to allow it to slip from her lips that I need to demonstrate to others that I have faith in God (with her self-righteous ass, I bet she will not do that again).  I may be banned from Substack for this, but here goes:  I have to raise my child (completed), pay taxes (doing), successfully navigate life as a mid-life, empty-nesting, successful Black woman in America (doing), and demonstrate my faith to God (do, doing, done) -and I uncertain of which ministry she has hitched her sails onto, but it is rude and illmannered to assume one has the right to tell anyone how to demonstrate faith. And, I am aware that my little rant really doesn't answer your question -so I guess I will sum it up with  I am human, and at times my faith wavers, but never does my belief [<-- "belief" is underlined] in God -that should be enough, but there is always someone who feels compelled to proselytize... and I invite that someone to save it for those who don't have to navigate being me in America because you are the one who doesn't know how to step out on faith.

I was initially introduced to magical realism in college - as part of a contemporary literature class. I later got into it because I had a job that required travel for as many as 11 days per month, and when you live out of a suitcase, you tend to always want something interesting to read. I got into writing magical realism because I wanted to challenge myself to try something new -and as it turns out, I am (tooting my own horn, loudly) pretty good at it.  How did you get into writing Science Fiction? 

Tim:
(4:07PM) Sci-fi is the first genre I truly fell in love with. I think we're both guilty of over-analyzing our youth, so this may be me injecting my current brain into my younger self, but I was always fascinated by science fiction's ability to open doors in the strictest of religious minds. My aunt sent me this great bit from Nate Bargatze about how traumatizing it is to be a kid who actually follows and believes all the rules laid out by religion:

As someone who used to be a religious rule follower I was always kind of shocked by how often people (great people! family members!) of the same faith bend them. I think my curiosity around that drew me to sci-fi. It's the ultimate bending of rules and exploration of the "why?" of it all. And it's a genre that people of all walks of life enter with their guard down. There's a specific buzz that I get from watching a great science fiction movie or show -- or reading a great science fiction short story or novel. And lately I've realized that science fiction glues a lot of my work together just as much as comedy. Diving back into magical realism... Are there aspects of it that come into play when raising a child?

C. Elyse:
(4:17PM) I would take it a step further with SciFi and say it's not the 'why or why not', but it is the 'what if and then...' -and you say Science Fiction is the only genre everyone willing enters with their guard down, I say Church is the only place one should be able to let their guard down, but because zealots twist the rules to afford that religion works for them, it isn't.  

There is definitive magic in parenting - it's the worst-paying job on Earth with the best dividend in the Universe because it is the only job in the Galaxy that you have no idea how poorly you have performed until your child is an adult and tells you what a shit parent you were! It also is the only job to ever exist that cost you to perform to your peak capacity - and the cost isn't just financial, it is emotional.  But it is so much FUN! 

Tim:
(4:29PM) Yes! The "what if" is the better way of putting it. I find that the packaging of Sci-Fi (and sometimes fantasy) helps people engage with a different or opposing perspective better than they would with a specific opposing perspective from our actual reality. And, ideally, I'm doing that same trick with my comedy.

How do you deal with your child's perception of who you are? That has to be a trip. And must be (or have been) for your parents. So much of our lives are spent combating what our parents impose on us and we spend far less of it contemplating how much we throw back at them.

C. Elyse:
(4:43PM) My kid is 27 and at this point, the reality is that my kid is well aware that I will not be the party charged with selecting the residential nursing facility I ultimately will reside in. My kid is productive, soon to have a graduate degree, and hasn't yet pulled any shit that has me ready to turn the page.  All-in-all, my perception is that I haven't ever been the optimum parent, I was never afraid to honestly express that I was learning on the job, and if your child/children are a direct reflection of your parenting, there are far more individuals with assumed and/or actual prominence to place under a parenting microscope. My dad was born in 1919, my mother in 1927 - their African America was significantly more challenging... luckily I had older siblings who helped me to understand that reality, long before I was slapped in the face with it -- and that too, being a multi-generational child, likely lends to me being a different type of parent.

Tim:
(7:16PM) The African America of your parents' generation reminds me of a joke I haven't quite figured out yet about how Black people love both literal and figurative escapism.

Admitting to your child that you’re learning on the job feels like a smart technique. 

You seems remarkably close to your family. They keep popping up in almost every response. I think it stands out because so much of American culture and media is about standing on your own island. Did you ever have the urge to run away from them? Not necessarily physically but on an emotional level?

C. Elyse: 
(7:42PM) Tim... I am a runaway - I live on the opposite side of the Country, at best a 4-hour flight from my nearest sibling, and 6.5 hours (really 20 hours with the time switches and the layovers) from the others. I am closer to the three remaining than I have ever been, and that is because they are officially elderly -not Senior Citizens (because according to the AARP one is eligible for Senior discounts as young as age 55), not seasoned, elderly and each is unwell -and time is of the essence. 

Don't get it twisted, they each can work a nerve -will tap dance up and down the last good nerve, and that shit is annoying... but I love them, and with our parents being deceased, I am tethering my island to who and what is remaining.  I'm still on my island (admittedly, I am "indigo") and if they are smart, they will call well in advance of sailing their boats in this direction because I am prone to dimming the Lighthouse, and they know this. Please understand the age differences:  18, 16, and 14 years -they have their own dynamic, they always have had their own dynamic and they had a different set of Parents than I did (despite us all having the same parents).  

I love them, yet don't know them on the granular level that most siblings know one another because the age difference didn't afford the opportunity (and again as I am speaking my truth, they didn't try to make opportunities either, however, and at this point in African America version of the Game of Life, the why isn't significant enough to discuss or investigate).  Maybe I love them out of obligation, maybe it's because I see the writing on the wall - regardless I do, and in African America that is a gracious plenty.

DAY 3 (Thursday 11-16-2023)

Tim:
(11:30AM) Day 3! The final day. I see you left me with a compelling cliffhanger last night.

I'm sorry if I missed you explaining that before, but I didn't realize you were a runaway. I think I just assumed there was a close proximity given how often your family and siblings come up. Perhaps that's just because they are (rightfully so) top of mind.

I often struggle with the fact that I think obligation and love are the same thing. Not in terms of work obligations but... when you get that gut feeling that you have to take care of a family member or friend, a part of that must be love, right? The act of doing, even if you don't want to, is love.

The age differences helps me understand how the arts and literature served as an escape for you, but also a path of understanding.

But enough of the past. Let's talk about the future, and your son's African America. Are you hopeful for the world he's entering as an adult? What are some of the differences between your African America and his?

C. Elyse:
(1:21PM) Hello, good morning!  This is a long week - I feel as if it should have been Friday at least two days ago.

Tim... 👀 There are some people I love, and have no problem telling as well as demonstrating that I am not obligated to do a damn thing for, and whilst I am certain that sounds harsh... Come on man!!!!  You and I both know plenty of people whom we cannot love the lazy, irresponsible fool out of! 

I am always hopeful for a better world, but I think my hopes for the world that he is inheriting are based on the plans that I have for myself now that my nest is empty.  That is, I have invested in making certain he can pursue whatever he desires, and part of parenting is accepting when your desires for your child/children don't align or even remotely look anything like what the child pursues. So far, his pursuits are productive - and I have no complaints. But it is important to realize my kid is inheriting the African America and the America where Civil Rights are being chipped away and restricted -and that 💩is scary. 

Tim:
(3:08PM) Yes! This week is moving in slow motion.

And, you're right... you're right... I know the people of whom lines need to be drawn around.

How do you fill the void in the empty nest? Has your personal work blossomed with the time you have available to yourself now that your son is out there manifesting his destiny?

C. Elyse: 
(3:36PM) You're correct, there is an adjustment and it is interesting because it can feel like a void when it is really an opportunity to rediscover who you are and to learn new things. I can tell you I do not cook anywhere near as often as I did, nor is there a need to clean as often. I take lots of 4-day weekend getaways, usually based on flight affordability or the availability of something fun to do (e.g., concerts) and I have developed an addiction to spa treatments including new age treatments like chakra tapping (LOL, I can feel your eyes rolling).  

Yes, there is quality time to devote to passion projects -there was time before, but it was restricted to odd hours and it was also limited to very small blocks of time. I think (now) there is time to give the energy and attention each passion project deserves to each individual project and as a result, there are fewer projects but there is an innate need to maybe push myself a little bit further. Not sure if that makes sense or if it conveys well - and I likely should have simply said, yes my personal work has blossomed and that may be due to having more discretionary income, and time to learn new things/seek different opportunities.

Tim:
(4:04PM) It's funny you say that you can feel my eyes rolling (I will not confirm nor deny) because this feels like a truly fluid conversation. Remarkable, because given your multiple aliases, it's a bit like emailing Batman.

Have you found a community of peers that function as family? If so, what was your journey in cultivating them?

C. Elyse:
(5:21PM) Well, I have a community of peers - a couple of communities of peers, but I don't think they function like my family, and that again is likely related to my being introverted/an indigo, and preferring solitude. I've been reading a few articles about the difficulty in and of making new friends and maintaining friendships as you age. 👀 Not sure I buy that New Age spin on that advertisement, but I will admit that in African America one is less likely to engage in fruitless endeavors and we call it Aging Gracefully.  I've been told I am very personable but hard to get to know... in my defense in African America that is called being observant... Seriously friendships are important; currently, it isn't difficult to cultivate friendships, but at this age, it's a little more challenging to cultivate friendships with people who are at the same station in life. Not everyone is an empty nester, not everyone has the freedom to travel at will, and let's face it  -most people my age are settled (note, I did not say lazy) and don't want to wiggle an inch out of their comfort zone. Note cultivation doesn't include morphing into a lump too and it shouldn't!

Tim:
(7:09PM) I find it difficult to cultivate friendships as well, and similarly attribute it to my introverted nature. However, I think it’s safe to say that after this conversation — we are good internet friends from afar.

This has been such a lovely interview. I learned something new, inspiring, and thought provoking with each of your responses. I’m glad you got to take a journey through my corner of African America. I look forward to your posts each week and will appreciate them so much more with the added knowledge from this chat.

C. Elyse:
(7:56PM) We are great and fast internet friends; I will send you the book -and I agree this has been a very lovely conversation and a great start to the Holiday Season!  I look forward to your jokes every day -- it's a great start to the work day, keep them coming!   I hope you and your family remain well!  We will chat soon and stay inspired in African America!!!  Thanks, Tim - you are the BEST!

END OF INTERVIEW

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Be on the look out for a new interview with DeAngelo of Hats Off Media soon!

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