A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Actor / Author / Comedian DC Pierson
timbarnescomedy.substack.com
A [TEXT MESSAGE] Conversation With Actor / Author / Comedian DC Pierson
Derrick Comedy, The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep and Never Had To, Marvel, Book Writing, Music, Acting, & Improv
A [BLANK] Conversation With… is an interview series where guests engage in a three-day conversation via their preferred mode of text-based communication, with no commitments to the length or frequency of their responses.
A month or so ago, DC Pierson emailed me with some kind, reassuring words regarding some of the personal crap I tend to reveal in this newsletter. I had no idea he was a subscriber, and immediately seized the opportunity to invite him onto this interview series.
Truth is (why would I lie?), I’ve been following DC’s work since I was a high schooler — huddling around a friend’s computer (likely Ian Abramson’s) to watch the latest sketch from Derrick Comedy.
“Celebrity” - Derrick Comedy (2006)
Since those Derrick days, DC has stayed busy acting in Marvel movies, writing books like The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep and Never Had To and Crap Kingdom, performing improv, making funny comics, becoming a father, sending updates from his own wonderful newsletter, and even hosting a home cooking podcast:
So, I was excited to chat about his journey through various permutations of internet comedy, and also check in on how adulthood is treating him.
Talking to DC was a delightful time warp. Mainly because he is profound at directly responding to a text after an hour, or even a day has gone by. It has resulted in a new “choose your own adventure,” format for your reading experience.
Here’s how it works:
“֍” at the end of a post from one Person A means that the “╰┈➤” at the start of a post from Person B is in direct response
“≫” signifies that someone made a direct response to their own direct response
And a post that begins without one of those icons is new to the main feed.
Now, let’s dive in to my three day text message interview with DC Pierson. And be warned — THERE ARE SOME (MOSTLY TAME) SWEAR WORDS IN THIS CONVERSATION!
Enjoy!
TABLE OF CONVERSATION:
“Touching The Crystal,” Brooklyn, & Internet Humor
Listing Billionaires, Children’s Programming, & Process
A False Start & Three Different Girls Named Chelsea
Jealousy, Unprocessed Worry, & Comics
Note: Since both Tim and DC live in New York, each text is timestamped in Eastern Standard Time. However, certain reactions like “iPhone haha”s and ❤️s exist out of time. We have no way of retrospectively knowing exactly when those buttons were pressed. There have been minor adjustments of the text for clarity.
DAY 1 (Thursday 10-24-2023)
Tim Barnes: (10:08AM) D.C.! Welcome to the interview. Are the rumors from the bio on your website true? Do you live in Brooklyn? DC Pierson: (10:08AM) Hi Tim! Thanks for havin me or whatever the proper terminology is for a text interview. They are, and I do! [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (10:10AM) I don’t know why I’ve always visualized you living in L.A. but New York makes sense. This is where you started with Derrick Comedy back in the day, isn’t it? ֍ (10:19AM) You don’t have to answer that. I googled it. I was a big fan of those sketches when they were coming out and it has been great seeing what you’ve been working on since. How long have you been in Brooklyn? Is there something about it that draws you in more than other cities? ֍֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (10:45AM) Yep!! Sure is. We all met at NYU and then moved out to LA a few years after I graduated when our movie “Mystery Team” was gonna come out. Was there for 10+ years and then my wife Haley and I briefly moved in with her family during the early days of COVID. Our kid was born there and then once we were settled in enough to that new routine we were like “ok time to to go back to LA i guess,” but we’d both wanted to move back to NY forever. We started talking about “what if we did that, wouldn’t that be wild,” almost as a joke/fantasy, but since we were already uprooted it got more and more real until lo and behold - we did it! So we’ve been back here about two years and are really loving it. Especially right now when it’s very classically fall-feeling. ≫ (10:47) I actually never lived in Brooklyn when I lived here before (Manhattan and then queens, in that case) and spent relatively little time here, but it’s pretty well suited to me as a bearded hipster dad with strong opinions about music and food ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (10:47AM) And thank you! (11:18AM) I feel really lucky to have been involved in a lot of different scenes and kinds of comedy over the years! I’m somebody that likes knowing a lot of different people and I think I missed - as a lot of us did during COVID - the kind of casual “hey how are ya” interactions you have doing a show or going to someone else’s show or in the waiting room at an audition or whatever. Turns out those are less shallow / more critical to our emotional well-being than we think they are - at least speaking for myself! (Side note: that’s been one silver lining of the SAG strike — I’ve had so many really nice, very rapidly “deep” conversations with people i’ve known forever but otherwise would not have talked to at length like that in pretty much any other context.) I HAVE done a ton, lol! There’s the Derrick stuff, and we were also pretty enmeshed at UCB in New York - i think me most of all, at one point I had done every job there besides house manager - as well as sketch and improv stuff, teaching, coaching, etc — then started doing stand up and storytelling stuff, did a lot of that once I was in LA so got exposed to whole other set of people that way — then kind of downshifted on the stand-up stuff cause I wanted to focus more on writing and two of my ex-Derrick cohorts (Dan Eckman and Meggie McFadden) and I were trying to develop my first book into a movie (a proof of concept short for which, starring Jack Quaid and Tony Revolori, you can see ~INSERT LINK HERE, lol~ and I still think someone should make!) for a while. Also was in an improv show, Shitty Jobs, at UCBLA that ran for like ten years. And also just tweeting. When I realized that had become my main comedy outlet, that definitely gave me pause! I don’t do a ton of live performance these days but when I get asked to do a live improv or sketch show these days and it works out to do it, I really enjoy it. I’m sitting in with a sketch group called Lemonhands at Caveat tonight actually! My wife Haley and I half jokingly call that kinda thing “touching the crystal.” So much of trying to make a life in the arts can be disillusioning, or almost incent you to pre-disillusion yourself so you don’t get hurt by disappointments, which are pretty constant. When you get to do the thing that got you into it in the first place, just to do it — in my case, doing a sketch show in a basement, which Caveat blessedly is — it kinda powers you up a little bit. And to answer another part of your question - it is wild to have been in one of the earliest waves of comedy online and see what it’s transformed into! Back then we always used to talk about how underrated sketch was as an art form, and it’s somewhat vindicating to see how with TikTok, etc, so many people are doing or consuming sketch without even classifying it as such. It’s like sketch lost the battle (i think most people still reflexively think stand up when they think of comedy — which is cool, I love stand up) but won the war, in that way. It’s in the water supply. (11:19AM) (If i don’t answer your next Q for a while that’s cause I’m doin errands and such!! This has been great so far though!) (11:23AM) (And here’s the above-mentioned proof of concept short:
The Boy Who Couldn’t Sleep And Never Had To [Proof-Of-Concept] (2015)
[Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (11:49AM) Hahaha, incredible! I’m still recovering a bit from a covid booster so I might be in and out a bit today as well. Sometimes I wonder if I should have leaned heavier into improv and sketch starting out. But when I try to boil down why I focused so hard on standup, it was primarily to boost my self esteem. And like you said, it was just an excused to bump into people and catch up in a dingy room. There was also a path that doesn’t have the same steps anymore. It feels so ancient that we used to wait for the approval of a guy wearing a fedora to get onto JFL, when these days you can just upload proof of how funny you are. Derrick felt like a true discovery to me and my friends. What was the secret sauce to the tone you developed as a team? And I love this term “touching the crystal. It captures the beautiful insanity of wanting turn making people laugh into a career.֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (1:50AM) Glad the term was relevant to you - in this case it’s really about wanting to get back in touch with what you love about it in the first place, minus the career ladder stuff. It’s easy to let that supplant your “love of the game” so to speak — and I guess necessary to a certain degree? And so glad the Derrick stuff was meaningful to you and your friends. When people describe it being not just something they liked but something that was a shared experience with a friend group - it kinda makes me emotional! I think we were lucky in that the stuff we found funny also resonated with other people, and especially as the life of the group went on, we were drawing from stuff that would crop up in improv shows. We had a really long run at UCB NY Cagematch and obviously most things live and die on the improv stage — it’s a “had to be there” art form for the most part, which is kind of a double edged sword — but some stuff stuck around. (2:10PM) And glad ya got the COVID booster! NOT glad you are feelin’ it but glad you are trying to take it easy! For whatever reason it felt pretty mild to me this time around — just low-key gross. ֍ Tim: (2:32) What drew you to improv? I did it very briefly, and I remember my disconnect with it at the time being the realization that “oh… regular people don’t go to these shows.” lol. Like, I really wanted the experience of making a general audience laugh, which standup seemed to provide. I get the sense that you’ve truly incorporated the tenets of improvisation into your life. Was there ever any friction between your interests? ֍ (2:32PM) Also, yes — it’s clear that Derrick was the result of many “touching the crystal” moments! [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ╰┈➤ (2:35PM) Yeah this one is hitting me harder than the others. It’s my first time doing the Novavax one — which sounds like a meteor of some sort, so I guess that makes sense ֍֍ DC: (⌛ THE NEXT DAY) ╰┈➤(2:10PM) I’m very flattered that you think that re: the tenets of improv and my life! It’s not something i consciously think about but I do really value certain stuff about improv that I think is true in life as well — like one thing I love is how mistakes get woven into the pattern and (if you’re paying attention) become opportunities, and you and your scene partner can end up some place neither of you would have imagined if you just sat down and try to write out a scene. ≫ (2:10PM) *tried ≫ (2:14PM) And as for the friction between interests — i think that it helps, more than it hurts! You find all these areas of crossover. But sometimes, like a lot of artists I know, I wish I had, if I can use a gross phrase, a “cleaner brand story.” Like, here’s who I am and EXACTLY the one thing I do. Though you did another interview with Eliza Cossio a little while ago I thought was great that touched on this and reassured me a little — “you are the genre” was the takeaway. I’ve definitely reminded myself of that since. ≫ (2:15PM) I bring myself to the table in everything I do, and that self is, for better or for worse, interested in, good at, curious about a tonnnn of different stuff DC: ╰┈➤╰┈➤(2:05PM) Oh wow — i am sorry our elite team of rapidly assembled experts were not able to explode the Novavax meteor before it collided with you ≫ (2:05PM) Hopin you feel better today? ֍ Tim: (⌛ THE NEXT DAY) ╰┈➤(2:09PM) Yeah! Feeling much better. Though… technically I might be Meteor Man now
DAY 2 (Friday 10-25-2023)
Tim: (10:22AM) I hope your show and errands went well yesterday!֍ (12:27PM) Are you still up for the interview? DC: (12:29PM) Hey man! Yeah, sorry, I’ve been watching our kid this AM so haven’t been able to get to the latest question! But I’m about to switch out with my wife so I will in just a little. Again, apologies [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (12:38PM) No worries! [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: ╰┈➤(2:06PM) The show was so fun!! Though I went up on one line and just ended up listing billionaires instead (i swear it vaguely made sense in context) Tim: (2:11PM) Honestly pretty insane that there are multiple billionaires in the first place [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (2:13PM) I bet that improv logic comes in handy with raising a child. Did you feel fairly prepared for parenthood? ֍ DC: ╰┈➤(2:19PM) I remember when I first started studying improv in college and was super zealot about all its rules, and was seeing connections everywhere and around the same time I was babysitting for this family in Park slope who had a two-year-old and I remember thinking oh my gosh it’s gonna be so fun playing with her because I bet two year olds are like the best improvisers their minds are just so open!! Cut to my first day, trying to play with her, and having her say no every two seconds. So much for my naïve and pretentious, notions of toddlers as these perfect improvisers ≫ (2:20PM) That said, I do think the principles of active listening, and really meeting your scene partner where they’re at have been hugely beneficial for parenting. In this case, my scene partner is a person whose survival and development as a person I am responsible for. ≫ (2:21PM) Lol we were just talking about mistakes getting woven into the pattern and I’m using voice to text while walking on the street and it corrected “scene partner where they’re at” to “meeting your scene partner where the rat” which is a good rule of improv — always establish that your scene contains an inflatable strike rat [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (2:22PM) Hahaha, it does seem like children are never what we expect them to be. I bet it’s because of our own idealized concept of what we were like when we were young. I always imagine I was a reasonable child but only my parents know the truth [DC gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] ֍ (2:23PM) Has fatherhood made a difference in your comedy? ֍֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (2:26PM) Let’s go ahead and loop them in on this thread. Or should we hop on a FaceTime? [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (2:29PM) Well, I *did* make this meme --
[Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] ≫ (2:30PM) And this tweet --
(2:32PM) I would say, in the stuff my brain gets to chew on everyday, it’s definitely a lot more kids’ media now, whether stuff i liked as a kid that I’m now revisiting thru our kid’s eyes and ears — and that obviously comes out in the dumb posts. It’s nice to have something in the compost my dumb posts are growing in besides lyrics from 90s hits [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (2:33PM) I was recently introduced the the psychotic beauty of Bar Rescue. Taffer really barges in like the KoolAid man. And the craziest part of it all is that the bar owners know that the only way for them to get a redesign of their place is to deal with this man questioning every level of their being ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (2:35PM) I’ve written for a few Nickelodeon shows and it opened my eyes to the fact that comedy for kids is very pure. Closer to Chaplin. Physical comedy, and more references to things that happen in real life than a specific cultural touchstone [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ֍֍ (2:35PM) They don’t know the cultural touchstones yet! ֍֍֍ DC: (2:35PM) And then i do unavoidably make little observations about parenting that i write down, those could become a solo show or essay collection or something someday. Or just notes for our kids to stumble upon someday and be like “why was dad dunking on us so hard in these hard-to-read notes” ╰┈➤ (2:37PM) Yes!! And I think it’s such a good metaphor for so much because these places/their owners/their staff clearly have deeply seated issues that transforming them, into, like, a helicopter-themed sports bar is not going to address [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (2:38PM) Totally agree. I think Elmo might be one of the most gifted comedians working. He has these little looks where his head will kind of collapse into itself to convey frustration / confusion that make Jim from the Office look like absolute shit in the reaction shot department by comparison [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ╰┈➤╰┈➤╰┈➤ (2:40PM) They don’t! That said I do appreciate “one for the grownups” comedy, where it’s working on two levels. Even as a kid I liked things I knew were references even if I didn’t get the reference itself. Felt like they were throwing me a bone as a kid who would have happily (though mistakenly) hit the “skip childhood” button if I could have and just become a grownup. Animaniacs is how I learned about Christopher Walken, for example. We all remember how we learned about him, he’s easily as formative as, like, the “sex talk” Tim: (2:49PM) Yes! Animaniacs is brilliant in that way. Sets you up for a life of discoveries. (2:50PM) On another level there is something to watching stuff that is in no way relatable. I have a distinct memory of laughing at an episode of Seinfeld as a kid, and my dad walking in and asking “do you have any idea what you’re laughing about?” And me suddenly realizing “…no, I don’t.” ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (2:59PM) Hahahhaha! Ok so we were very similar kids ≫ (3:03PM) I have a sadder version of this story - i was in band in middle school, but didn’t practice very much and wasn’t any good, but in a bout of “maybe I’m a GENIUS actually” i had made and printed out my own blank sheet music, started writing what I thought would be a SYMPHONY for multiple instruments, but was basically just making the marks I knew how to make in a random order. My dad walked in, got way overexcited and was like, “can you… hear the music in your head?” Like, thinking he had a future Mozart on his hands. And I thought about it for a sec and was like “uhhhh… not really.” The symphony was abandoned shortly thereafter [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] Tim: (3:01PM) I identify with this ‘Outside Brain’ comic of yours —
֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: ╰┈➤(3:03PM) Thank you!! Tim: (3:05PM) I connect with that feeling of only having an hour to work on a personal project. Have you effectively gamed your day to day life so that you carve out nuggets of time for something bigger like a book or script? DC: (3:15PM) “Effectively” is debatable but yeah! (3:17PM) I’m close to a rough draft of a third book. Trying to finish that by November. Here’s another Outside Brain that reflects the process of me being in the “home stretch” of something and how that goes (3:17PM) --
[Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (3:27PM) Are you big on outlining? ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (3:40PM) I am! I would like to be even better about it than I have been this time, but I’ve been working on this one for a while and I’d say at the beginning I gave myself a “here’s vaguely what the road of the story looks like” outline and then, as I’ve gone along, I keep having to supplement with shorter, “what you can see in your headlights” outlines, IE, here’s what’s actually in front of you for the next little while in a more detailed way. Which I think is natural to some degree, but it’s been a little more loosey goose-y than my most type-A story-structure-focused aspirations would have it. It can get dicey. Like you can, uh, literally “lose the plot” Tim: (4:11PM) Haha, yes I fall in and out if that as well. Stephen King famously doesn’t outline, but I think he’s also really open to tossing out ideas that aren’t working and using them later. Derrick Comedy felt like a very Second City thing (I could be very wrong) where you write polished versions of what was an in the moment “touching of the crystal.” How did you all go about writing those at the time? Did any of that influence your solo process? ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (4:23PM) Some were sketches we’d written earlier in our college group that had more people in it, and then later on it would often be, like, a moment from an improv show or a bit we’d been doing just hanging out that somebody would eventually write up as a sketch. I think the process that has most directly influenced my writing was writing (and most importantly, rewriting) our movie Mystery Team. Donald had started working at “30 Rock” at the time, and that was a famously rigorous writing environment where it wasn’t like “eh, we can write something that’s kinda funny and then the actors will plus it up.” Tina was very intent on it being joke-dense on the page. That’s what we tried to do with Mystery Team, which really helped because it was a low-budget feature and we didn’t have time to do a lot of improv and “find it” on set. So when we were polishing the script we’d sit on jokes for a long time being like “can this be ‘beat,’” ie is there a funnier specific than this, or a sharper way to say this, or what have you. And just making sure that joke opportunities were always taken if they were there. That process really set the standard for me in terms of intentional, rigorous rewriting. I dunno if I always meet it, but I try! [Tim gives this an iPhone "!!"]
Mystery Team - Green Band Trailer (2009)
Tim: (4:56PM) I have a confession to make. I went to one of the screenings of Mystery Team in L.A. I forget exactly where. But I loved it! And remember awkwardly waving at you all after. That movie exudes so much joy. And there’s nothing like really flowing with a group of other writers in a room. Sometimes writers I’ve worked with become little ghosts in my head when I’m writing on my own because I can hear suggestions they’d make in the moment. ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (4:56PM) Are there any themes that you’d say re-emerge in your work? ֍֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (5:08PM) Thanks!!! Please “confess” more stuff like this lol! ≫ (5:10PM) That’s a beautiful image Re: the writers in your head. Cool to think we could be that for other people we’ve worked with (and also good to keep in mind, like, yet another reason not to be a dick so you don’t end up as a negative voice the person can’t get rid of!) ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (5:21M) Good question! Not necessarily consciously but I would say jealousy and the idea that our lives are, at some point, going to transition into being like a movie, when in reality, we’re always us and life pretty much feels like life. And that focusing on the former, which is an idealized bill of goods we get sold by pop culture, can make you miss the adventure and beauty in the latter. Sort of a wizard of oz meets Ferris Bueller thing I guess? Tim: (5:26PM) Ah, yes! Now we’re getting to the good stuff! Where does that come from for you? Is that something you felt coming in to play in high school? I remember feeling very disappointed by the real thing compared to what was presented on TV. My locker was a little cube instead of a long one you could stuff a nerd into. Even though I would have been that nerd, I’d prefer that experience to what I actually got! ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] DC: ╰┈➤(5:19PM) I would say so! Especially being kind of an emo teen and really savoring (wallowing in?) those moments of giant teenage emotion that FEEL like you have tripped the threshold into genre-world ≫ (6:20PM) Emo more in the sense of dramatic than in the fashion choice sense. I’ve always been a pretty run of the mill “indie rock guy” clothes / hair / beard wise
"Emo Song" Derrick Comedy (2007)
Tim: (6:31PM) I think I know what you mean. I remember almost swimming in a melancholy feeling. I connect it to Jimi Hendrix songs like “The Wind Cries Mary.” I don’t want to keep you too late because I know you have a life to live and a kid to raise! But what music were you listening to in high school? Feel free to save answering that for tomorrow [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (⌛ TWO DAYS LATER - MONDAY 10/3 @10:05AM) In early high school i was listening to KMFDM, Fear Factory, and other industrial-y metal-y stuff I had learned about from from my friend’s brother’s friends’ t-shirts in middle school. Then I started to get into more indie skewing stuff (Yo La Tengo and Death Cab were both bands I also found out about from t-shirts) and hip hop. My friend group was heavy into pop punk and we’d go to see local ska and punk bands of that ilk, but I mostly thought of myself as not *primarily* into that stuff until the end of high school, I think out of premature nostalgia for a time in our lives that was coming to an end. Also I’d gone thru a break-up and what are you gonna do in that emotional state at that time and place but unironically embrace the music of Yellowcard [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: (6:32PM) Ahhhh i loved Hendrix at that time!!! Still do but i rarely think to listen to him (6:32PM) We were really squarely in the throes of boomer nostalgia at that time ֍ Tim: ╰┈➤ (6:35PM) It’s the only way to explain the band Jet! ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] DC: ╰┈➤ (6:57PM) 🎯 ≫ (6:57PM) Hahahhahaha
DAY 2.5 (Saturday 10-21-2023)
Tim: (11:04AM) Welcome to the last day of the interview! [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (11:06AM) You mentioned being an “indie rock guy.” That got me thinking about the evolution of “indie” to “hipster.” I remember in the movie Medicine for Melancholy they use the word indie a lot to describe themselves (I’m just going from memory so I hope that’s actually true!) — but that kind of thing has faded. It seems like whenever someone describes themselves as a hipster it’s self deprecating whereas indie has a little more pride. (11:10AM) How do you feel about the state of the indie world right now? Has the term, or the culture around it changed at all for you? ֍ DC: (11:11AM) Aw man, today I’m reminded that when you’re a parent somehow the weekends feel busier than the week itself. I wanna engage with this in the way it deserves, do you think we could pick up again Monday? Or will that throw your timing off with the newsletter? Tim: (11:16AM) No that’s totally fine! Let’s switch to Monday [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: (2:22PM) Sweet! Thanks for understanding ╰┈➤ (⌛ MONDAY 10-23 @ 10:20AM) I have so many feelings/thoughts around this! It was cool — and I’m sure it hasn’t gone away entirely and has just changed forms for people younger than us — to know somebody who would connect you with this music that was cool and you probably wouldn’t have found out about it any other way. For me in late high school it was, no joke, three different girls named Chelsea, one of whom I had an independent (appropriately enough) study period with, two of whom were friends with each other and would go to shows all the time and tell me about bands they’d seen. (One of the going-to-shows friends is Chelsea Hodson, an author who among many other things runs an imprint called Rose Books that just put out the debut novel of Geoff Rickly from Thursday. Her coolness track record is unmatched. She’s the best!) The word of mouth element enhanced the mystique around it. The personally curated burned-CD factor. Also just being that age. That kinda got taken over by blogs when I was in college, which I read obsessively, would become convinced a band was the biggest thing in the world, then go to their show in Brooklyn and there’d be six other people there. Concurrently indie was becoming (maybe always has been) more a series of stylistic and sonic traits than an indicator of your place within or opposition to the major label world. It’s probably entirely the former now? But also there’s more ways than ever to get your music out there? But also a genuinely cool important thing like Bandcamp seems to be getting made into a shell of itself right now after getting acquired? I dunno, my personal feeling around it now is that I need to hear more music by new bands I didn’t already like 10 years ago and go to more shows by said bands, otherwise I might be part of the problem.
DAY 3 (Monday 10-23-2023)
Tim: (11:16AM) I was joking with some friends not too long ago about how “vintage” band shirts from Target used to be how so many of us found our personalities as kids. And it’s funny how some people who have never really listened to The Who will wear one of those shirts with pride just because of the feeling it gives. I’m getting a lot of nostalgia from this conversation. I worry sometimes that a certain sense of discovery gets lost in the current state of the internet. But maybe that’s just because there’s no digital version of a friend wearing a cool shirt at school ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (11:21AM) Yeah I think it’s so easy to get lost in what the “real” version of that experience would be until you end up in an authenticity arms race. When in reality — if Target’s where you encounter the shirt that shapes your personality, that’s just as crucial as, like, “I got this shirt at this show this now-huge band played for 20 people!” A while back a friend posted a picture of their book on sale at Target and I’ve never been more jealous! Like, how many people are gonna get exposed to your book that wouldn’t have otherwise? ≫ (11:22AM) I also made myself laugh at the idea of somebody being like “I found out about The Avengers on a shirt from Target” and somebody else being like, “pass, I saw them play a house show in Portland when they were comin’ up, The Hulk and Iron Man had clearly been fighting in the van all day” [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ≫ (11:22AM) *”Psssh,” not “pass” Tim: (11:25AM) You mentioned jealousy as being an unconscious theme in your work. I think you meant jealousy of fictionalized versions of life in media. But what are your feelings about jealousy in general? Does it fuel you in any way? Once you recognize that feeling in yourself it kind of becomes like the force — you can wield it for good or evil DC: (11:31AM) It’s definitely fueled a competitive spirit in me at times — I had an ex who got a job that seemed cool and I wrote my second book really really fast in part because I wanted to “get one on the board,” not because I thought, oh, they’ll see it and feel jealous or anything but merely because I also wanted to feel like “hey, something cool is happening to me, too” — but I think for the most part it’s corrosive, much in the way we talked about — like, hey, you’re comparing an idealized version of someone else’s life to the lived-in, 3D, warts-and-all version of your own, that’s completely unfair. “Compare and despair,” as they say. Like, why would you be mean to your own life like that? Tim: (11:35AM) Yeah, I totally agree. Did the jealousy that motivated your speedy writing process feel validated by the end? Have you developed any methods for combating it? ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (11:36AM) No, LOL ≫ (11:37AM) I kind of impressed myself with how fast I wrote it but I wish I’d spent more time on i ≫ (11:37AM) *it (11:36AM) I wish you could micro-dose Michael Jordan style competitive spirit, but it’s hard to precipitate out the motivating parts of jealousy from the dark-side parts. Tom Scharpling talks about this event all the time on The Best Show, where Bob Dylan was giving his Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame induction acceptance speech and it was just a litany of scores he was still trying to settle with people and critics he thought had wronged him. There’s alternately something great about that — like, it probably HAS fueled him in some way — but also something sad. Bob Dylan arguably won at life, and all these things are clearly still bothering him that you’d like to think success and acclaim would blunt the sting of (11:38AM) I think the only methods are just boring stuff like mindfulness and therapy and getting older and having different experiences! Stuff I think is really important but is also not a “one weird trick” sort of thing Tim: (11:42AM) Yeah that makes sense. Jealousy creeps in sometimes before I even realize it. But once I do, I have to run through a mental maze to find the source of the feeling. Usually it’s not even the person. ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (11:45AM) 100% feel that. Rarely if ever. Tim: (11:46AM) Whats it like seeing raw emotions emerge from your kid? I don’t remember if you said how old they are. But now that I have friends and cousins my age with kids, seeing them interact with the world has reminded me of just how unfiltered the nucleus of our basic feelings are. Seeing jealousy or anger in a child is intense! (11:54AM) I guess I’m really asking — has fatherhood given you a new lens to review your own life through? Which sounds like way more of an intense question ֍ DC: (11:54AM) It really is! It’s pretty intense, as you said. And she’s literally a toddler which is when it’s the most famously, y’know, raw. I have certain emotions – anger chief among them — I’m not super comfortable with in myself. Something I’ve realized is I would almost always convert anger into some other emotion/reaction than feel it or express it as such. So usually when I feel most thrown off center by an emotion coming out of our kid it’s that one, and it’s an important reminder that it’s a totally valid thing that I gotta get more comfortable with, both for my own plain ol’ being a person and also for parenting. ╰┈➤ (12:05PM) It completely has. My mom had cancer for a lot of my elementary school years, it went away, it came back, and she ultimately died when I was in middle school. And I don’t think I ever really had a place to put the resulting emotions because I seemed outwardly fine (maybe even felt inwardly pretty okay) in the months and years afterward and my dad was suddenly a single parent with three kids and had a lot of other stuff to worry about. I’ve realized I have these giant gobs of unprocessed worry and sadness and anger from that time that I’m still lugging around. Some of this I knew from having been in therapy for years already but some it took being someone else’s parent to realize, and realize, one of my main jobs here is to communicate to my kids that emotions, all of ‘em, are normal and healthy. And to be okay saying “I feel sad” or “I feel mad” or what have you. Nobody ever told me that WASN’T okay, I was just trying to be a good little soldier. So realizing you have to go further and affirmatively practice and model this stuff. I’m also lucky in that we haven’t had to deal with anything remotely that difficult yet as a family. Tim: (12:17PM) Damn, I’m sorry to hear that. Witnessing your mother’s pain at such a young age must have been incredibly difficult. Perhaps it allowed you to develop coping mechanisms early on that you were only able to recognize as mechanisms later? ֍ (12:20PM) No need to answer that if it’s too much for the moment. More broadly — what elements of your parents do you see reflected in your work? ֍֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (12:22PM) I mean, it’s kind of the same thing as the jealousy stuff — these coping mechanisms can have positive sides that maybe help you in some ways later on but also negative sides, and it’s tough to separate those things. But I think if you have some awareness of them, hopefully you can tell certain emotional tools you needed previously that they can stand down and are not needed in a given situation later [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (⌛ LATER @ 2:38PM) I missed this Q in the flow of stuff — I think my mom was a very artistic, passionate person but I didn’t get to know her from a more grown-up perspective. She definitely liked the music of Paul Simon and Carly Simon — there were a lot of Simons playing in that grey dodge minivan. She also read to me every night religiously and I think that’s like, aside from the Simpsons, mostly responsible for me being the person I am today. [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ≫ (2:41PM) As far as my dad, he was a serial entrepreneur in the world of computer-based training — like, coming up with videos and computer programs to help companies teach employees and other people how to use the software (and other stuff) they had to use to do their jobs. He really valued being independent, making something because you think it needs to exist in the world. I would say my approach to my career is more evident to me as a reflection of my dad, and the content probably is too but the connection isn’t as clear to me. I guess that would be more about the things he exposed me to — Spinal Tap, Monty Python, etc. — and how they informed what I’ve done/made. [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (12:51PM) What media were you drawn to as a kid? Watching your “The Boy Who Couldn’t Sleep and Never Had To” short gives a few hardy clues ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (1:18PM) Like a lot of people my age I’m 90% Simpsons — had the usual arc where my mom didn’t want to let us watch it because she had heard that Bart Simpson was, like, gonna turn your kids into skateboarding reprobates but then my dad watched an episode and was like “we have to watch this.” Monty Python, Star Wars… I had a subscription to the Spider Man comic book until the “clone saga” in which it was revealed Peter Parker was actually a clone, which was weirdly heartbreaking to me, so I didn’t bug my parents about renewing my subscription. A lot of things that showed up in the mail, like Nintendo Power magazine. I think that started me on a lifelong journey of liking media that’s about other media perhaps more than the media itself. (1:18PM) Is that what you gleaned from the boy who couldn’t sleep short? It’s definitely consciously living in an 80s Spielberg-y Amblin-y space ֍ Tim: ╰┈➤(1:25M) Know what’s weird? I LOVED Nintendo Power magazine and barely played any video games. Just a few Pokémon on Gameboy and stuff like Star Fox at my cousin’s house. I could definitely tell Star Wars because the first little creature looks just like a Jawa and the Amblin element comes across. Amblin is the ultimate nostalgia vibe. I used to watch E.T. feeling slightly sad about Eliot’s parents’ divorce but mostly jealous of the cool neighborhood he lived in [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ≫ (1:25PM) And there’s nothing like that first heartbreak with a decision that’s made in a franchise. I let Power Rangers go when Power Rangers let Zordon go [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (1:36M) The ET neighborhood is Northridge but it definitely has a suburban Phoenix vibe - Spielberg grew up in Arizona. Wasn’t super aware of that growing up but then later on it felt like an extra layer to why I enjoyed / had fallen for that movie and stuff like it so hard ≫ (1:37PM) Poltergeist being another one ≫ (1:37PM) (Not literally Spielberg but produced and maaaaybe ghost directed by him) (lol, ghooooost directed) (1:39PM) Speaking of franchise heartbreak there was an episode of “Lois And Clark,” a Superman centric night time soap opera of the mid 90s, that ended with a reveal of Luthor KISSING (sleeping with?) Lois Lane! And Superman seeing it and being like “Noooo!” I remember that really shattered me. Like, I’m sure they walked it back at the beginning of the next episode but as a kid you’re not thinking about how network TV or comics are mostly static and things will no doubt return to the status quo you know and love soon… I was like, “how could this HAPPEN” [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHA"] Tim: (2:26PM) What’s your relationship with comic book culture now? Appearing in a Marvel movie must’ve been a surreal experience! DC: (2:34PM) It was! I’m very thrilled to be a small part of that universe. There was even a fan theory floating around on TikTok that I was going to be revealed as this big bad called Mephisto after I revisited my character in this XBOX ad:
(2:34PM) Like, I think more people saw that TikTok than anything I will ever make! [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (2:35PM) My relationship to it is, I love comics and cartooning and am constantly reminded what a big part of my DNA it is, and I’m perpetually wishing I read more comics more regularly. I’ll go in fits and starts, like a few years ago with the Matt Fraction / David Aja HAWKEYE, but I’m never as immersed as I would like to be. Tim: (2:37PM) I feel the same way about more and more things. There’s a cap to how much Star Wars I can ingest and there’s constantly more and more stuff. Makes me wonder if there’s even a healthy way to keep up with it all. ֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (2:43PM) It’s hard. I would say, for as much as my *output* is what it is, so much of what I consume now is Bravo reality TV shows. And I love them! So I don’t feel any real qualms about it, but part of me thinks/wishes I was a brain in a jar in front of 25 TV screens consuming all the things I’d ideally consume to be the perfect comedian/writer/water-cooler-conversation-haver Tim: (2:51PM) I think a lot of people are tempted by that fantasy of consuming everything like the architect --
[DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (2:52PM) But then the question is “what will you really do with all of that information?” ֍ (2:52PM) Do you have a go-to comic book shop? ֍֍ (3:22PM) Also, how did your dad react to your entry into comedy? ֍֍֍ DC: ╰┈➤ (3:32PM) Completely! I do kind of like that all the folds of my brain are memories and personality traits and random song lyrics i remember but when i die and electricity stops going through them they’ll just be, like, food for a tree. Weirdly romantic notion imo ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (3:35PM) Can’t say I do — went to Desert Island in Williamsburg the other week, that was cool ╰┈➤╰┈➤╰┈➤ (3:44PM) Positively! I don’t think anyone was surprised. I’d been in, like, a high school improv group etc. And when I ended up being in / helping make an indie movie that went to Sundance, that was, like, it for him in terms of pride. The “independent” thing was big for him. ≫ (3:44PM) What about your folks? Tim: (3:48PM) My parents were completely shocked, because I was always pretty quiet. Very much the type of person who chooses his moments for a big laugh — but a big laugh with minimal physical effort. No characters or funny voices. I probably did that kind of stuff when I was a kid, but by middle and high school became really introverted. I really hate how much that rhymes with perverted ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (3:49PM) But they’re also proud. Even though they were pretty concerned until things started to pay off a bit, lol ֍֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: ╰┈➤ (3:50PM) I think that archetype is actually way more correlated with growing up to be a comedian then they’ll like loud class clown in an 80s movie ≫ (3:53PM) *the like ╰┈➤╰┈➤ (3:55PM) Glad to hear it. That concern seems to be pretty universal/understandable- comedy is like the most subjective thing so i think even the most supportive parents are like “well *i* think you’re funny but what do i know?” Tim: (3:56PM) Yeah! And there are a ton of characters on both sides of my family. Lots of jokes used to deflect emotions or jokes used to suggest emotions. I was so quiet that most of my family would have conversations with the idea of what I’d say back (3:57PM) Ironically I’m really good at small talk DC: (4:00PM) Laughed at “Yeah! And there are a ton of characters on both si…” (4:01PM) You should do a special where you intercut your actual jokes with your family members' ideas of what tim would say about a given subject Tim: (4:06PM) Hahaha, yeah that would get pretty surreal DC: (4:18PM) What if they were VERBATIM THE SAME [Tim gives this an iPhone "!!"] Tim: (4:28PM) That commercial clip you sent is a good example of the state of fandom. You had one line and the sky was the limit in terms of possibilities! Sometimes people on the creative side of these franchises get jaded, either from the churn of the work, or by audience expectation. Getting out of my own industry jade came through accepting that many of the old things I strove to achieve in comedy simply don’t exist anymore. It was a sort of mourning. Have you had similar moments? Are their examples of your grander goals shifting from one thing to the other. DC: (5:38PM) I mean they kind of… like… spread out? I dunno if any have gone away. I’d like to make it to the New York Times bestseller list, which still exists, but I like to think I’m smart enough now to know that that will not change my life from black and white to technicolor or anything (5:40PM) I want to make things with people i love, feel like all my skills are being used, and useful, and I want to make a living and make sure my family has a decent life, which also involves, like, being around. My dad was a very driven guy but we never felt like he wasn’t around. [Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (5:43PM) And i have a bunch of other goals but they’re all “achievement unlocked” type things i could probably ultimately take or leave - like, milestone stuff. And then more just areas I’d like to work in: it would be cool to direct a movie. I’d like to write a musical. (5:48PM) It’s not a very clean brand story but hey what is Tim: (6:02PM) I think this is a great place to end, but we can let it fizzle out with any stray thoughts lol. I like what you said about The New York Times bestseller list because the fantasy of what happens once you get onto it ties into that things you’re warning against in your work. That might be what it is for me too. It feels like certain things like specials and late night sets, and getting a story onto a website instead of something that’s in print weighs a little less. Maybe it’s just a matter of us adjusting our personal scales. ֍ [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (6:17PM) This has been such a fun conversation! Thanks again for agreeing to do it. It meant so much to me when you emailed me out of the blue. I had no idea you were subscribed to this weird thing of mine [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] DC: ╰┈➤ (6:19PM) I mean also a lot of systems have genuinely degraded/been stripped for parts (a lot of what the strikes were/are about) but also we could all have healthier perspectives, too! They can both be true ≫ (6:20PM) I wondered if you were referring to specials and late night sets, meant to ask but got caught up in my narcissistic reverie! (6:20PM) I’ve really really enjoyed it! And thanks for rolling with my weird schedule. Keep it up with the newsletter, it’s great![Tim gives this an iPhone "❤️"] Tim: (6:20PM) Thanks!! (6:21PM) Hope to see D.C. Pierson shirts sold at Target someday [DC gives this an iPhone "❤️"] (6:22PM) Wait a minute… how have I not asked this… Does DC stand for something?! DC: (6:22PM) Just WAIT til you see my signature home collection!! [Tim gives this an iPhone "HaHa"] (6:22PM) It does! Donald Charles Tim: (6:22PM) WOAH!(6:22PM) There were two Donalds in DERRICK DC: (6:41PM) I know! I was a couple months into knowing Donald when i found that out and he thought i was joking
END OF INTERVIEW
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I feel like I pull some incredibly thoughtful quote from every one of these interviews to take back to my own life, and this time it was: "I'm smart enough to know it's not going to change my life from black and white to technicolor." That's great stuff. Thanks all.